Subject: [Manycouches] What others are doing II

From: Andrew Campling <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 14:53:54 +0000

The Internet Governance Forum takes place in Katowice, Poland next month and is planning to run a hybrid format - a total of 3365 people are currently registered with 1879 indicating an intention to attend in person, so 46% projected to be online.  Based on what the organisers have stated so far, this could provide useful learning on hybrid meetings for IETF 113, especially as I suspect a number of us will be attending so will experience the event either virtually or in-person.

Andrew

---

From: Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 12:56:39 +0100

Le 10/11/2021 à 15:53, Andrew Campling a écrit :
> The Internet Governance Forum takes place in Katowice, Poland next 
> month and is planning to run a hybrid format – a total of 3365 people 
> are currently registered with 1879 indicating an intention to attend 
> in person, so 46% projected to be online.  Based on what the 
> organisers have stated so far, this could provide useful learning on 
> hybrid meetings for IETF 113, especially as I suspect a number of us 
> will be attending so will experience the event either virtually or 
> in-person.

During the recent shmoo WG online meeting a couple of persons said 
they'd go to IGF in Poland.

In the meeting I was suggesting to look at various kinds of maps.   Maps 
can give a rough idea about where things are situated with respect to 
one another, neighborhood, and much more.

Maps about covid can be used to guide one's intention to go, how to go, 
how to protect, and more.

Some of the the maps I meant are the following.  In the  left there is a 
map showing Poland in green several weeks ago.  In the right there is a 
map of Poland in red these days.

I am not trying to raise any alarm.  If I wanted to raise an alarm I 
could write directly to IGF organizers.  I suspect they already know all 
these things so there is no need to write them.

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/situation-updates/weekly-maps-coordinated-restriction-free-movement

Alex

> *Andrew*
>
> _______________________________________________
> Manycouches mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manycouches

---

From: "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 16:05:22 +0000

As an example of what others are doing when a COVID related issue does arise, I received this communication regarding a Linux event I attended earlier this month.

—
Dear Charles,

We’re excited you were able to join us in person for The Linux Foundation Member Summit last week and we hope you enjoyed the event. Our attendees’ health and safety remain our top priority and we appreciate your compliance with our Onsite Health & Safety protocols, including our vaccine and mask requirement, which helped keep all attendees and staff safe throughout the event. Full information on all our onsite protocols last week are available on the Health & Safety page<https://events.linuxfoundation.org/lf-member-summit/attend/health-and-safety/> of our website.

We are contacting you because we have learned that 1 participant in the Linux Foundation Member Summit has received a positive COVID-19 test result. This person was in attendance throughout the event and was in numerous session rooms, evening events and the keynote room. Because of the safeguards we had in place at the event, per current CDC Guidance<https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/if-you-are-sick/quarantine.html>, quarantine is not required for fully vaccinated individuals who may have been exposed and are not currently experiencing any symptoms.

That said, because of the potential for previous close contact with the person who tested positive, we encourage you to self-monitor for any COVID symptoms<https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/symptoms-testing/symptoms.html>, get tested in 3-5 days, and wear a mask indoors in public for 14 days (or until you have a negative test).

Should you begin to experience symptoms, you should quarantine and follow these CDC recommended protocols<https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/quarantine-isolation.html>.

For more information about the CDC’s recommendations for fully-vaccinated individuals click here<https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated-guidance.html>.

If you yourself test positive for COVID-19 within 14 days of attending the event, please notify Angela Brown at [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>.

If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to contact us at [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
Sincerely,
The Linux Foundation Events Team
[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>

—

At this time, I do not know more than what is shared in the above announcement. I tested negative shortly after the event and again once receiving this news. I appreciate the follow-up and it is good to know I could reach out to get more info if I had additional concerns. My personal opinion is that the precautions that were in place at the event were very good, and I am hopeful that time shows they were effective at limiting the potential spread among conference attendees.

Cheers,
Charles

---

From: Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 19:44:13 +0100

Thank you very much for this note!

Le 16/11/2021 à 17:05, Charles Eckel (eckelcu) a écrit :
> As an example of what others are doing when a COVID related issue does 
> arise, I received this communication regarding a Linux event I attended 
> earlier this month.
> 
> —
> 
> Dear Charles,
> 
> We’re excited you were able to join us in person for The Linux 
> Foundation Member Summit last week and we hope you enjoyed the event. 
> Our attendees’ health and safety remain our top priority and we 
> appreciate your compliance with our Onsite Health & Safety protocols, 
> including our vaccine and mask requirement, which helped keep all 
> attendees and staff safe throughout the event. Full information on all 
> our onsite protocols last week are available on the Health & Safety page 
> <https://events.linuxfoundation.org/lf-member-summit/attend/health-and-safety/> of 
> our website.
> 
> We are contacting you because we have learned that 1 participant in the 
> Linux Foundation Member Summit has received a positive COVID-19 test 
> result. This person was in attendance throughout the event and was in 
> numerous session rooms, evening events and the keynote room. Because of 
> the safeguards we had in place at the event, per current CDC Guidance 
> <https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/if-you-are-sick/quarantine.html>, 
> _quarantine is not required for fully vaccinated individuals who may 
> have been exposed and are not currently experiencing any symptoms_.
> 
> That said, because of the potential for previous close contact with the 
> person who tested positive, we encourage you to self-monitor for any 
> COVID symptoms 
> <https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/symptoms-testing/symptoms.html>, 
> get tested in 3-5 days, and wear a mask indoors in public for 14 days 
> (or until you have a negative test).
> 
> Should you begin to experience symptoms, you should quarantine and 
> follow these CDC recommended protocols 
> <https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/quarantine-isolation.html>. 
> 
> 
> For more information about the CDC’s recommendations for 
> fully-vaccinated individuals click here 
> <https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated-guidance.html>.
> 
> If you yourself test positive for COVID-19 within 14 days of attending 
> the event, please notify Angela Brown at [email-masked] 
> <mailto:[email-masked]>.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to contact us at 
> [email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>
> 
> Sincerely,
> [email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>
> 
> 
> —
> 
> At this time, I do not know more than what is shared in the above 
> announcement. I tested negative shortly after the event and again once 
> receiving this news. I appreciate the follow-up and it is good to know I 
> could reach out to get more info if I had additional concerns. My 
> personal opinion is that the precautions that were in place at the event 
> were very good, and I am hopeful that time shows they were effective at 
> limiting the potential spread among conference attendees.
> 
> Cheers,
> Charles
> 
> 
>

---

From: Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 19:48:27 +0100

I browsed deeper in the IGF site advising the foreigners how to travel 
into Poland.

It refers to what in our discussion in SHMOO we call 'local' 
legislation.  It is the gov.pl URL 
https://www.gov.pl/web/coronavirus/outside-the-european-union-schengen-area-turkey

There are a few things thing that it fails to say.  But it is not IGF or 
gov.pl fault, it is common in these times of rapidly changing covid 
situation, and the use of language.  English is a foreign language in 
Poland.

When people say 'completed a full vaccination cycle' they mean two doses 
of Pfizer or one doze of Johnson&Johnson vaccines, or similar.  (the 
gov.pl site says "they have completed a full vaccination cycle".)

Recently, that 2-dose pfizer or 1-dose J&J is no more a 'full 
vaccination cycle'.  Not only the 3rd dose is almost mandatory to many, 
but Johnson&Johnson requires a 2nd dose too, and preferably a Pfizer or 
Moderna if possible.  These two things are a dramatic change from what 
was said this summer about 'full vaccination cycles'.  These days there 
are people who consider themselves 'fully vaccinated' but have no 3rd 
dose even though the local legislation requires that 3rd dose.

In the future, I speculate that the term 'full vaccination cycle' will 
not be used anymore.  I think another term might make more sense, like 
'vaccination up to date'.

So, beware the language that says that people with a 'full vaccination 
cycle' have this or that right of no-quarantine, or so.

Finally, there is an additional thing worth noting.  The country where 
the initial QR code certificates (Austria, I think) were created, at the 
basis of the EU Digital Cert, is seemingly changing stance these days.  
If up to now the 'recovery' (having got the virus and then gotten 
better, with natural antibodies) was a valid indicator allowing some 
rights at the same level as having been vaccinated, there is a strong 
tendency in that same country now to actually consider only the 
vaccinated (not the 'recovery' anymore) to qualify for certain things.  
So, whenever the Polish gov't says that 'recovery' is a useful criterion 
think  that that gov't might change stance as we speak to follow the 
same model they followed initially.

(the gov.pl site says "they have recovered from a SARS-CoV-2 infection 
(so-called “convalescents”)")

Alex

Le 15/11/2021 à 12:56, Alexandre Petrescu a écrit :
> In the meeting I was suggesting to look at various kinds of maps.   
> Maps can give a rough idea about where things are situated with 
> respect to one another, neighborhood, and much more.
>
> Maps about covid can be used to guide one's intention to go, how to 
> go, how to protect, and more.
>
> Some of the the maps I meant are the following.  In the  left there is 
> a map showing Poland in green several weeks ago.  In the right there 
> is a map of Poland in red these days.
>
> could write directly to IGF organizers.  I suspect they already know 
> all these things so there is no need to write them.
>

---

From: Behcet Sarikaya <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 10:01:20 -0600

Hi Alex,

It just came to my attention that IEEE 802 2022 January Interim meeting
which was supposed to take place in Vancouver will now be held on line.

Behcet

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 12:50 PM Alexandre Petrescu <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> It refers to what in our discussion in SHMOO we call 'local' legislation.
> It is the gov.pl URL
> Recently, that 2-dose pfizer or 1-dose J&J is no more a 'full vaccination
> cycle'.  Not only the 3rd dose is almost mandatory to many, but
> Johnson&Johnson requires a 2nd dose too, and preferably a Pfizer or Moderna
> if possible.  These two things are a dramatic change from what was said
> this summer about 'full vaccination cycles'.  These days there are people
> who consider themselves 'fully vaccinated' but have no 3rd dose even though
> the local legislation requires that 3rd dose.
>
> In the future, I speculate that the term 'full vaccination cycle' will not
> be used anymore.  I think another term might make more sense, like
> Finally, there is an additional thing worth noting.  The country where the
> initial QR code certificates (Austria, I think) were created, at the basis
> of the EU Digital Cert, is seemingly changing stance these days.  If up to
> now the 'recovery' (having got the virus and then gotten better, with
> natural antibodies) was a valid indicator allowing some rights at the same
> level as having been vaccinated, there is a strong tendency in that same
> country now to actually consider only the vaccinated (not the 'recovery'
> anymore) to qualify for certain things.  So, whenever the Polish gov't says
> that 'recovery' is a useful criterion think  that that gov't might change
> stance as we speak to follow the same model they followed initially.
>
> The Internet Governance Forum takes place in Katowice, Poland next month
> and is planning to run a hybrid format – a total of 3365 people are
> currently registered with 1879 indicating an intention to attend in person,
> so 46% projected to be online.  Based on what the organisers have stated so
> far, this could provide useful learning on hybrid meetings for IETF 113,
> especially as I suspect a number of us will be attending so will experience
> the event either virtually or in-person.
>
>
> During the recent shmoo WG online meeting a couple of persons said they'd
> go to IGF in Poland.
>
> can give a rough idea about where things are situated with respect to one
> another, neighborhood, and much more.
>
> map showing Poland in green several weeks ago.  In the right there is a map
> of Poland in red these days.
>
> I am not trying to raise any alarm.  If I wanted to raise an alarm I could
> write directly to IGF organizers.  I suspect they already know all these
> things so there is no need to write them.
>
>
> Manycouches mailing [email-masked]://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manycouches
>
>
> Manycouches mailing [email-masked]://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manycouches
>

---

From: Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 11:07:28 +0100

Thanks Behcet, it is very good to know.

Alex

Le 17/11/2021 à 17:01, Behcet Sarikaya a écrit :
> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 12:50 PM Alexandre Petrescu 
> <[email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
> 
>     I browsed deeper in the IGF site advising the foreigners how to
>     travel into Poland.
> 
>     legislation.  It is the gov.pl <http://gov.pl> URL
>     <https://www.gov.pl/web/coronavirus/outside-the-european-union-schengen-area-turkey>
> 
>     There are a few things thing that it fails to say.  But it is not
>     IGF or gov.pl <http://gov.pl> fault, it is common in these times of
>     rapidly changing covid situation, and the use of language.  English
>     is a foreign language in Poland.
> 
>     When people say 'completed a full vaccination cycle' they mean two
>     doses of Pfizer or one doze of Johnson&Johnson vaccines, or
>     similar.  (the gov.pl <http://gov.pl> site says "they have completed
>     a full vaccination cycle".)
> 
>     vaccination cycle'.  Not only the 3rd dose is almost mandatory to
>     many, but Johnson&Johnson requires a 2nd dose too, and preferably a
>     Pfizer or Moderna if possible.  These two things are a dramatic
>     change from what was said this summer about 'full vaccination
>     cycles'.  These days there are people who consider themselves 'fully
>     vaccinated' but have no 3rd dose even though the local legislation
>     requires that 3rd dose.
> 
>     In the future, I speculate that the term 'full vaccination cycle'
>     will not be used anymore.  I think another term might make more
>     sense, like 'vaccination up to date'.
> 
>     So, beware the language that says that people with a 'full
>     vaccination cycle' have this or that right of no-quarantine, or so.
> 
>     Finally, there is an additional thing worth noting.  The country
>     where the initial QR code certificates (Austria, I think) were
>     created, at the basis of the EU Digital Cert, is seemingly changing
>     stance these days.  If up to now the 'recovery' (having got the
>     virus and then gotten better, with natural antibodies) was a valid
>     indicator allowing some rights at the same level as having been
>     vaccinated, there is a strong tendency in that same country now to
>     actually consider only the vaccinated (not the 'recovery' anymore)
>     to qualify for certain things.  So, whenever the Polish gov't says
>     that 'recovery' is a useful criterion think  that that gov't might
>     change stance as we speak to follow the same model they followed
>     initially.
> 
>     (the gov.pl <http://gov.pl> site says "they have recovered from a
>     SARS-CoV-2 infection (so-called “convalescents”)")
> 
>     Alex
> 
>>>     The Internet Governance Forum takes place in Katowice, Poland
>>>     next month and is planning to run a hybrid format – a total of
>>>     3365 people are currently registered with 1879 indicating an
>>>     intention to attend in person, so 46% projected to be online. 
>>>     Based on what the organisers have stated so far, this could
>>>     provide useful learning on hybrid meetings for IETF 113,
>>>     especially as I suspect a number of us will be attending so will
>>>     experience the event either virtually or in-person.
>>
>>
>>     In the meeting I was suggesting to look at various kinds of
>>     maps.   Maps can give a rough idea about where things are situated
>>     with respect to one another, neighborhood, and much more.
>>
>>     Maps about covid can be used to guide one's intention to go, how
>>     to go, how to protect, and more.
>>
>>     Some of the the maps I meant are the following.  In the  left
>>     there is a map showing Poland in green several weeks ago.  In the
>>     right there is a map of Poland in red these days.
>>
>>     I am not trying to raise any alarm.  If I wanted to raise an alarm
>>     I could write directly to IGF organizers.  I suspect they already
>>     know all these things so there is no need to write them.
>>
>>     <https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/situation-updates/weekly-maps-coordinated-restriction-free-movement>
>>
>>
>>     Alex
>>
>>
>>>     *Andrew*
>>>
>>>     [email-masked]  <mailto:[email-masked]>
>>>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manycouches  <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manycouches>
>>
>>     [email-masked]  <mailto:[email-masked]>
>>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manycouches  <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manycouches>
>     [email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>
>     <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manycouches>
>

---

From: Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 11:24:25 +0100

With respect to Austria and optionality of the 'convalescence' criterion 
in addition to the 'vaccination': contrary to what I said earlier, I 
hear recently that the 'locked down' in Austria might be the 
non-vaccinated and the non-convalescents too (those who never met the 
virus).  Earlier I thought that only  the non-vaccinated where in 
'lockdown' state.

Also, I learn that in various countries in Europe the use of the EU cert 
with QR code, and their respective legislation advancements, is not 
homogeneous at all, despite a common European QR code format and EU 
cert.  Earlier I thought each country in Europe applied this unique EU 
Cert w/ QR code, precisely as all applied the vaccination conventions (4 
vaccines, etc) and the treatment recommentations.  But it is far from 
being so.

Alex

---

From: Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 19:58:08 +0100

I learn now that Austria decides to go lockdown state to all, 
irrespective of vaccinated or not or 'convalescent' or 'PCR test'.

Le 19/11/2021 à 11:24, Alexandre Petrescu a écrit :
>> There are a few things thing that it fails to say.  But it is not IGF 
>> or gov.pl fault, it is common in these times of rapidly changing covid 
>> doses of Pfizer or one doze of Johnson&Johnson vaccines, or similar.  
>> (the gov.pl site says "they have completed a full vaccination cycle".)
>>
>> Pfizer or Moderna if possible.  These two things are a dramatic change 
>> from what was said this summer about 'full vaccination cycles'.  These 
>> days there are people who consider themselves 'fully vaccinated' but 
>> have no 3rd dose even though the local legislation requires that 3rd 
>> dose.
>>
>> the initial QR code certificates (Austria, I think) were created, at 
>> the basis of the EU Digital Cert, is seemingly changing stance these 
>> days. If up to now the 'recovery' (having got the virus and then 
>> gotten better, with natural antibodies) was a valid indicator allowing 
>> some rights at the same level as having been vaccinated, there is a 
>> strong tendency in that same country now to actually consider only the 
>> So, whenever the Polish gov't says that 'recovery' is a useful 
>> criterion think  that that gov't might change stance as we speak to 
>> follow the same model they followed initially.
>>
>>>> month and is planning to run a hybrid format – a total of 3365 
>>>> people are currently registered with 1879 indicating an intention to 
>>>> attend in person, so 46% projected to be online.  Based on what the 
>>> Some of the the maps I meant are the following.  In the  left there 
>>> is a map showing Poland in green several weeks ago.  In the right 
>>> there is a map of Poland in red these days.
>>>

---

From: Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2021 13:30:07 +0100

Last minute cancellation of participation of digital equipment 
manufacturer to in-person fair in Amsterdam in two weeks time. (IBC 
about broadcasting).

I am mentioning it because it is a first time I see a covid-based 
cancellation on such a short notice.

Alex

Le 19/11/2021 à 19:58, Alexandre Petrescu a écrit :
>> With respect to Austria and optionality of the 'convalescence' 
>> criterion in addition to the 'vaccination': contrary to what I said 
>> earlier, I hear recently that the 'locked down' in Austria might be 
>> the non-vaccinated and the non-convalescents too (those who never met 
>> the virus).  Earlier I thought that only  the non-vaccinated where in 
>> 'lockdown' state.
>>
>> Also, I learn that in various countries in Europe the use of the EU 
>> cert with QR code, and their respective legislation advancements, is 
>> not homogeneous at all, despite a common European QR code format and 
>> EU cert.  Earlier I thought each country in Europe applied this unique 
>> EU Cert w/ QR code, precisely as all applied the vaccination 
>> conventions (4 vaccines, etc) and the treatment recommentations.  But 
>> it is far from being so.
>>
>> Alex
>>
>>
>>> or gov.pl fault, it is common in these times of rapidly changing 
>>> covid situation, and the use of language.  English is a foreign 
>>> language in Poland.
>>>
>>> stance these days. If up to now the 'recovery' (having got the virus 
>>> and then gotten better, with natural antibodies) was a valid 
>>> actually consider only the vaccinated (not the 'recovery' anymore) to 
>>> qualify for certain things. So, whenever the Polish gov't says that 
>>> 'recovery' is a useful criterion think  that that gov't might change 
>>> (the gov.pl site says "they have recovered from a SARS-CoV-2 
>>> infection (so-called “convalescents”)")
>>>
>>> Alex
>>>
>>>>> people are currently registered with 1879 indicating an intention 
>>>>> to attend in person, so 46% projected to be online.  Based on what 
>>>>> the organisers have stated so far, this could provide useful 
>>>>> learning on hybrid meetings for IETF 113, especially as I suspect a 
>>>>> number of us will be attending so will experience the event either 
>>>>> virtually or in-person.
>>>>
>>>>

---

From: Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 10:55:44 +0100

The "Brussels Motor Show" (Salon de l'Auto) is maintained for January
2022 in Brussels.  This is a thousand-class attendance fair similar to MWC.

The covid measures include a specific point about 'ventilation',	 among
other measures such as QR codes and an interesting 'no test' service
(the organizers dont provide testing service).

There is a context about auto Show announcements in the last 2 years
with many cancellations, maintaining, postponements and last minute
announcements.  Regular Motor shows are in Paris, Geneva and Denver.

Alex

Le 23/11/2021 à 13:30, Alexandre Petrescu a écrit :
>>> EU cert.  Earlier I thought each country in Europe applied this 
>>> unique EU Cert w/ QR code, precisely as all applied the vaccination 
>>>> IGF or gov.pl fault, it is common in these times of rapidly changing 
>>>>>> learning on hybrid meetings for IETF 113, especially as I suspect 
>>>>>> a number of us will be attending so will experience the event 
>>>>>> either virtually or in-person.
>>>>>
>>>>>