Subject: [MBONED] recharter text

From: Leonard Giuliano <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 13:01:26 -0700

Here is the proposed recharter verbage based on feedback from the mtg in 
Paris.  Once again, only the last bullet is new (plus a few completed 
items are removed).

Please send comments by Aug 6.

Thanks,
MBONED Chairs

****

The MBONE Deployment Working Group is a forum for coordinating
the deployment, engineering, and operation of multicast routing
protocols and procedures in the global Internet. This activity will
include, but not be limited to:

- Documenting deployment of multicast routing in the global Internet.

- Receive regular reports on the current state of the deployment of
multicast technology. Create "practice and experience" documents that
capture the experience of those who have deployed and are deploying
various multicast technologies.

- Based on reports and other information, provide feedback to other
relevant working groups.

- Develop mechanisms and procedures for sharing operational
information to aid in operation of the multicast backbones and
interconnects.

- Develop tools and protocols that assist in multicast administration, 
diagnostics, troubleshooting and deployment in native and non-native 
environments. While development of routing and group membership protocols 
is out of scope, this working group may develop requirements and assist in 
review and feedback of documents in other working groups responsible for 
such protocols.

---

From: Mike McBride <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 16:23:06 -0700

Lenny, Greg,

MBONED is *the* multicast operations forum. And, since there is a fair
amount of activity in the data center, I'd like to see the MBONED
charter expanding to specifically include DC deployment, engineering
and operation of multicast.

thanks,
mike

On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Leonard Giuliano <[email-masked]> wrote:
> Paris.  Once again, only the last bullet is new (plus a few completed items
> are removed).
>
> environments. While development of routing and group membership protocols is
> out of scope, this working group may develop requirements and assist in
> _______________________________________________
> MBONED mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mboned

---

From: Tom Taylor <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 21:03:08 -0400

So I see Ron deleted the word "transition" from the last bullet after 
all. In Paris we had wordsmithed the bullet without doing that.

On 23/07/2012 4:01 PM, Leonard Giuliano wrote:
> environments. While development of routing and group membership
> protocols is out of scope, this working group may develop requirements
> and assist in review and feedback of documents in other working groups
> responsible for such protocols.
>

---

From: Leonard Giuliano <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 07:45:05 -0700

Keep in mind "transition" was only in there in the first place to cover 
AMT, that is the transition from unicast-only to multicast.  So it was 
changed to "... native and non-native environments..." to clarify original 
intent.

On Mon, 23 Jul 2012, Tom Taylor wrote:

-) So I see Ron deleted the word "transition" from the last bullet after all. In
-) Paris we had wordsmithed the bullet without doing that.
-) 
-) On 23/07/2012 4:01 PM, Leonard Giuliano wrote:
-) > 
-) > Here is the proposed recharter verbage based on feedback from the mtg in
-) > Paris.  Once again, only the last bullet is new (plus a few completed
-) > items are removed).
-) > 
-) > Please send comments by Aug 6.
-) > 
-) > Thanks,
-) > MBONED Chairs
-) > 
-) > ****
-) > 
-) > The MBONE Deployment Working Group is a forum for coordinating
-) > the deployment, engineering, and operation of multicast routing
-) > protocols and procedures in the global Internet. This activity will
-) > include, but not be limited to:
-) > 
-) > - Documenting deployment of multicast routing in the global Internet.
-) > 
-) > - Receive regular reports on the current state of the deployment of
-) > multicast technology. Create "practice and experience" documents that
-) > capture the experience of those who have deployed and are deploying
-) > various multicast technologies.
-) > 
-) > - Based on reports and other information, provide feedback to other
-) > relevant working groups.
-) > 
-) > - Develop mechanisms and procedures for sharing operational
-) > information to aid in operation of the multicast backbones and
-) > interconnects.
-) > 
-) > - Develop tools and protocols that assist in multicast administration,
-) > diagnostics, troubleshooting and deployment in native and non-native
-) > environments. While development of routing and group membership
-) > protocols is out of scope, this working group may develop requirements
-) > and assist in review and feedback of documents in other working groups
-) > responsible for such protocols.
-) > 
-) > _______________________________________________
-) > MBONED mailing list
-) > [email-masked]
-) > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mboned
-) > 
-)

---

From: Stig Venaas <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 12:20:47 -0700

> changed to "... native and non-native environments..." to clarify original

With the proposed charter text, does it include these WG documents?

draft-ietf-mboned-multrans-addr-acquisition
draft-ietf-mboned-v4v6-mcast-ps

Maybe it does, but it's not clear to me.

We should make sure they are somehow covered by the new text.

Stig

---

From: Tom Taylor <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 20:00:58 -0400

That's my concern too. Leonard's interpretation of "transition" doesn't 
match our understanding in Paris. Until we get that settled there's no 
point in adding it back to the charter.

---

From: Leonard Giuliano <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 17:58:49 -0700

Mike- I see nothing in the current charter that would preclude MBONED from 
taking on work related to data centers.  Also, I think there is a risk in 
overly specific enumeration of networking components, where some could 
imply that if it isn't specifically mentioned in the charter it is 
explictly excluded.  

If there are drafts related to data centers that you think should be 
adopted, let's have them presented.  If the charter presents a barrier, we 
can always address later.

On Mon, 23 Jul 2012, Mike McBride wrote:

-) Lenny, Greg,
-) 
-) MBONED is *the* multicast operations forum. And, since there is a fair
-) amount of activity in the data center, I'd like to see the MBONED
-) charter expanding to specifically include DC deployment, engineering
-) and operation of multicast.
-) 
-) thanks,
-) mike
-) 
-) On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Leonard Giuliano <[email-masked]> wrote:
-) >
-) > Here is the proposed recharter verbage based on feedback from the mtg in
-) > Paris.  Once again, only the last bullet is new (plus a few completed items
-) > are removed).
-) >
-) > Please send comments by Aug 6.
-) >
-) > Thanks,
-) > MBONED Chairs
-) >
-) > ****
-) >
-) > The MBONE Deployment Working Group is a forum for coordinating
-) > the deployment, engineering, and operation of multicast routing
-) > protocols and procedures in the global Internet. This activity will
-) > include, but not be limited to:
-) >
-) > - Documenting deployment of multicast routing in the global Internet.
-) >
-) > - Receive regular reports on the current state of the deployment of
-) > multicast technology. Create "practice and experience" documents that
-) > capture the experience of those who have deployed and are deploying
-) > various multicast technologies.
-) >
-) > - Based on reports and other information, provide feedback to other
-) > relevant working groups.
-) >
-) > - Develop mechanisms and procedures for sharing operational
-) > information to aid in operation of the multicast backbones and
-) > interconnects.
-) >
-) > - Develop tools and protocols that assist in multicast administration,
-) > diagnostics, troubleshooting and deployment in native and non-native
-) > environments. While development of routing and group membership protocols is
-) > out of scope, this working group may develop requirements and assist in
-) > review and feedback of documents in other working groups responsible for
-) > such protocols.
-) >
-) > _______________________________________________
-) > MBONED mailing list
-) > [email-masked]
-) > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mboned
-)

---

From: Mike McBride <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 09:55:44 -0700

Lenny,

If "global internet" includes data centers, sdn's, and other areas of
potential multicast work then I suppose I agree, we should be good.

But I still think it would be helpful to call these areas out. Much
has changed since the mbone of the 90s. If this wg doesn't update its
charter with new work, that work will be done somewhere else and
mboned is at risk of becoming obsolete. I don't want that.

mike