Subject: [MBONED] draft-ietf-mboned-ieee802-mcast-problems-06 review

From: "Holland, Jake" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 00:09:43 +0000

Hi guys,

I was working on the document shepherd write-up and noticed another
few minor issues in the doc that I think will need fixing:

New technical:
1.
I noticed an addition in -06 in the AMT section that I recommend
changing:

<OLD>
   It is RECOMMENDED that multicast-enabled networks deploying AMT
   relays for this purpose make the relays discoverable with the
   following methods:

   o  DNS-SD [RFC6763]
   o  the well-known IP addresses from Section 7 of [RFC7450], and
   o  DRIAD [I-D.ietf-mboned-driad-amt-discovery]
</OLD>

I would remove the DRIAD line item, since this is advice to the
local Wi-Fi network operator:
<NEW>
   It is RECOMMENDED that multicast-enabled networks deploying AMT
   relays for this purpose make the relays locally discoverable with
   the following methods, as described in [I-D.ietf-mboned-driad-amt-discovery]:

   o  DNS-SD [RFC6763]
   o  the well-known IP addresses from Section 7 of [RFC7450]
</NEW>

Sorry, I hadn't caught this suggestion when it was raised, but in
the context of this section, I don't think DRIAD belongs in the
list, because this is advice for the local (to the receiver)
network operator, but DRIAD discovery is something a remote sender
would deploy.

This is because the new method DRIAD defines is for looking up an
AMT relay known to the sender, so it's only applicable to the
one sending traffic.  (And if the Wi-Fi network operator is also
operating the source of traffic, it's either within the same
multicast-capable local or local-ish network, in which case the
DRIAD lookup isn't needed, or the sender is in a separate network,
in which case DRIAD could be useful, but it's not something
provided by the Wi-Fi portion of the network.)

New editorial (minor):
2.
The first few references are separated by commas without exposition,
where usually they'd be without commas if they're intended as a
reference for a claim, but in fact I think 2 of these references are
outlining the well-known issues, and one is the description of the
802.11 networks (new in -05, I think):
<OLD>
   Well-known issues with multicast have prevented the deployment of
   multicast in 802.11 [dot11], [mc-props], [mc-prob-stmt], and other
   local-area wireless environments.  Performance issues have been
</OLD>

I think it might make more sense as:
<NEW>
   Well-known issues with multicast have prevented the deployment of
   multicast in 802.11 [dot11], and other local-area wireless
   environments, as outlined in [mc-props] and [mc-prob-stmt].
</NEW>

(Or maybe "as outlined", might be better "as documented" or "as
described"?  This bit of wordsmithing I don't care about, just
trying to fix the weird comma-separated reference list...)

References:
I've also checked the references a little more thoroughly, and
noticed a few issues I didn't see before:

3.
The [arpsponge] reference link doesn't work:
https://ams-ix.net/downloads/arpsponge/3.12.2/arpsponge-3.12.2/arpsponge.txt

I was thinking it might make sense to reference the original paper instead:
"Effects of IPv4 and IPv6 address resolution on AMS-IX and the ARP Sponge"
by Marco Wessel and Niels Sijm
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.182.4692

Or perhaps the github repo:
https://github.com/AMS-IX/arpsponge

3.a.
(Editorial: in the reference to this, it might make sense to call it "one of the
most widely deployed arp sponges" instead of "the standard one".)

4.
[dot11] reference has a broken link:
https://standards.ieee.org/getieee802/download/802.11-2016.pdf

I get a 404 on this.  The RFC Style guide uses a different
formulation in one of the IEEE examples, which worked for me:
http://standards.ieee.org/findstds/standard/802.11-2016.html

(from https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7322#section-4.8.6.6 )

4.a.
Also: in the draft's html page the link is not clickable, and it
seems to be because the url contains extra text inside the
<> instead of outside of it (the "(includes 802.11v amendment)" bit)

              Medium Access Control (MAC) and Physical Layer (PHY)
              Specification", March 2016,
              <http://standards.ieee.org/getieee802/
              download/802.11-2016.pdf (includes 802.11v amendment)>.
                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

5.
[dot11aa] same broken link style as dot11 (#4)

---

From: Charlie Perkins <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 07:56:24 -0700

Hello Jake,

Thanks for the additional review.  I will prepare a new revision of the 
document for submission on Monday.

By the way, due to a last-minute change of plans, I will be unable to 
attend this IETF in person.  I'll try to attend remotely and prepare 
some presentation materials if needed.

Regards,
Charlie P.

---

From: Charlie Perkins <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2019 11:12:23 -0700

Hello Jake and all,

I have followed your suggestions below to remove DRIAD as a discovery 
mechanism, and I have updated the citations to be more correct according 
to your observations.

Thanks much for your comments and corrections.

Regards,
Charlie P.

On 7/18/2019 5:09 PM, Holland, Jake wrote:
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