Subject: [MEDIACTRL] Media Control Channel Framwork

From: Yuxia Zhang <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 11:59:03 +0800

hi, Boulton
 
can I ask you some question  involved in the draft of  media control channel
framework? 
 
 I have had thought over them for a few times, but I always think there is a
little difference from my understanding. 
 
why does there need to correlate the control channel with the SiP dialog
used for its establishment? 
 
  When a control client intending to establish control channel initiate a
control connection on a specific port through a SIP dialog, c control client
will remain 
 
the SIP dialog information relating to the connection. That is to say, there
will be remained   their respective SIP dialog information for all 
 
incoming connections on the same specific port. So, is it necessary and
meaningful send SYNCH message to contain “dialog-id” indication to 
 
correlate control channel with the SIP dialog?  

Can you give me a favor for this ?  Thanks 

Isal
  _____  

发件人: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] 代表
Chris Boulton
发送时间: 2008年5月27日 18:47
收件人: [email-masked]
主题: [MEDIACTRL] Media Control Channel Framwork
 
Greetings fellow media controllers,
 
As a result of Ben Campbell’s excellent RAI expert review (thanks again
Ben) I will be compiling a new version of the Media Control Channel
Framework document shortly.  I would strongly encourage this group to review
the document and provide feedback as we hope to move to the WGLC stage soon.
The ‘02’ version of the document can be retrieved from
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mediactrl-sip-control-framewo
rk-02.txt.
 
If you do intend reviewing – then please drop me a note and I will
synchronise the work appropriately.
 
Thanks.
 
Chris.
 
_______________________________________________
MEDIACTRL mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mediactrl
Supplemental Web Site:
http://www.standardstrack.com/ietf/mediactrl

---

From: Eric Burger <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 05:12:30 -0400

Yuxia Zhang sent a message that I received as a blank message,  
including a Huawei logo and what looks like a HTML template for a  
Huawei document as attachments.  However, there is a real message in  
the archive at

<http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/mediactrl/current/msg00879.html>

that has real content.  In addition, it has the same Thread-Index mail  
header value as what I received in my inbox.  The Thread-Index I  
received and in the archive is "Aci/5v92u7bNFsTdSNuyac9riyiJbgEaMN1gAAU 
+kxA=".

Did anyone else receive Yuxia's questions?  Did anyone else receive a  
blank message with two attachments?  Did anyone else receive something  
else?

Please send responses directly to ME  
<mailto:[email-masked]>, NOT to the list.

Thanks.

--
Your Confused Co-Chair and Co-List Manager
_______________________________________________
MEDIACTRL mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mediactrl
Supplemental Web Site:
http://www.standardstrack.com/ietf/mediactrl

---

From: "Chris Boulton" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 10:33:56 +0100

hi, Boulton

can I ask you some question  involved in the draft of  media control channel framework? 

 I have had thought over them for a few times, but I always think there is a little difference from my understanding. 

why does there need to correlate the control channel with the SiP dialog used for its establishment? 

  When a control client intending to establish control channel initiate a control connection on a specific port through a SIP dialog, c control client will remain 

the SIP dialog information relating to the connection. That is to say, there will be remained   their respective SIP dialog information for all 

incoming connections on the same specific port. So, is it necessary and meaningful send SYNCH message to contain “dialog-id” indication to 

[Chris Boulton] The state of the control channel maps directly to the state of the SIP dialog.  If the SIP dialog terminates – then so should the control channel.  If the control channel terminates that the SIP dialog should also (or it can try and repair).  To create such a mapping, the sip dialog and control channel need to be correlated – especially in the case where a common port if being used for control framework listening.

 

Isal

  _____  

发件人: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] 代表 Chris Boulton
发送时间: 2008年5月27日 18:47
收件人: [email-masked]
主题: [MEDIACTRL] Media Control Channel Framwork

As a result of Ben Campbell’s excellent RAI expert review (thanks again Ben) I will be compiling a new version of the Media Control Channel Framework document shortly.  I would strongly encourage this group to review the document and provide feedback as we hope to move to the WGLC stage soon.  The ‘02’ version of the document can be retrieved from http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mediactrl-sip-control-framework-02.txt.

If you do intend reviewing – then please drop me a note and I will synchronise the work appropriately.

Thanks.

Chris.

---

From: "Steve Buko" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 09:38:12 -0400

I received his original email containing the questions.

Steve

|-----Original Message-----
|From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On
|Behalf Of Eric Burger
|Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 5:13 AM
|To: [email-masked]
|Subject: [MEDIACTRL] List or Client problem? [was: Media Control
|ChannelFramwork]
|
|Yuxia Zhang sent a message that I received as a blank message,
|including a Huawei logo and what looks like a HTML template for a
|Huawei document as attachments.  However, there is a real message in
|the archive at
|
|<http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/mediactrl/current/msg00879.html>
|
|that has real content.  In addition, it has the same Thread-Index mail
|header value as what I received in my inbox.  The Thread-Index I
|received and in the archive is "Aci/5v92u7bNFsTdSNuyac9riyiJbgEaMN1gAAU
|+kxA=".
|
|Did anyone else receive Yuxia's questions?  Did anyone else receive a
|blank message with two attachments?  Did anyone else receive something
|else?
|
|Please send responses directly to ME
|<mailto:[email-masked]>, NOT to the list.
|
|Thanks.
|
|--
|Your Confused Co-Chair and Co-List Manager
|_______________________________________________
|MEDIACTRL mailing list
[email-masked]
|https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mediactrl
|Supplemental Web Site:
|http://www.standardstrack.com/ietf/mediactrl
_______________________________________________
MEDIACTRL mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mediactrl
Supplemental Web Site:
http://www.standardstrack.com/ietf/mediactrl

---

From: Marshall Eubanks <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 10:46:51 -0400

> blank message with two attachments?  Did anyone else receive something

I received an apparently blank message with two attachments.

However, if you look at the raw contents of the message, the text is  
there - my mail
app (Apple Mail client 3.2) is just not displaying it for some reason.  
Here is the text -

Marshall

--Boundary_(ID_11QBn9mO6liHtQO62Ey5DA)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

=20
hi, Boulton
=20
can I ask you some question  involved in the draft of  media control =
channel
framework?=20
=20
I have had thought over them for a few times, but I always think there =
is a
little difference from my understanding.=20
=20
why does there need to correlate the control channel with the SiP dialog
used for its establishment?=20
=20
  When a control client intending to establish control channel  
initiate =
a
control connection on a specific port through a SIP dialog, c control =
client
will remain=20
=20
the SIP dialog information relating to the connection. That is to say, =
there
will be remained   their respective SIP dialog information for all=20
=20
incoming connections on the same specific port. So, is it necessary and
meaningful send SYNCH message to contain =A1=B0dialog-id=A1=B1 =
indication to=20
=20
correlate control channel with the SIP dialog? =20
=20
=20
Can you give me a favor for this ?  Thanks=20
=20
=20
Isal
  _____ =20

---

From: Eric Burger <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 20:42:23 -0400

Thanks to Marshall for hunting this down.  The raw text *is* there,  
and the bug is still there too, in Apple Mail 3.3.  Time for a bug  
report to Apple :-(

On Jun 2, 2008, at 10:46 AM, Marshall Eubanks wrote:

> app (Apple Mail client 3.2) is just not displaying it for some  
> reason. Here is the text -
>
> Marshall
>

---

From: Diego Besprosvan <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 17:52:34 +0300

Hi;
I also use Apple mail and can't see the text.
It may be related to the charset charset=gb2312.

-------
Diego Besprosvan (:--:)
MailVision Ltd.
[email-masked]

On Jun 3, 2008, at 3:42 AM, Eric Burger wrote:

> charset=gb2312

---

From: Yuxia Zhang <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 10:07:54 +0800

well, I get it. Thanks!
 
You means the precondition is that relationship between control channel and
that SIP dialog is correlative strongly. 
 
but acturally, I think another case where the media control channel can be
established separately by another SIP+SDP, after 
 
the media SIP dialog for a media resource service application is established
by SIP+SDP. such that  is the correlation 
 
necessary ? or is the approach of the correlation feasible ? 

Isal

  _____  

From: Chris Boulton [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 5:34 PM
To: Yuxia Zhang
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [MEDIACTRL] Media Control Channel Framwork

 

hi, Boulton

[Chris Boulton] The state of the control channel maps directly to the state
of the SIP dialog.  If the SIP dialog terminates – then so should the
control channel.  If the control channel terminates that the SIP dialog
should also (or it can try and repair).  To create such a mapping, the sip
dialog and control channel need to be correlated – especially in the case
where a common port if being used for control framework listening.

 

Isal

  _____  

Thanks.

Chris.

---

From: "Chris Boulton" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:28:18 +0100

well, I get it. Thanks!

You means the precondition is that relationship between control channel and that SIP dialog is correlative strongly. 

[Chris Boulton] Yes.

but acturally, I think another case where the media control channel can be established separately by another SIP+SDP, after 

the media SIP dialog for a media resource service application is established by SIP+SDP.

[Chris Boulton] there is no stipulation that a control channel has to be set up before a media dialog is processed.  In reality – the majority of cases will result in a control channel being set up in preparation for use at the start.

 such that  is the correlation 

[Chris Boulton] I’m not quite sure of the question BUT it must be remembered that the offer/answer associated with the media control channel is like any other.  The correlation between the underlying control channel and SIP dialog will always be necessary. 

Chris.

Isal

  _____  

 

hi, Boulton

 

Isal

  _____  

Thanks.

Chris.

---

From: Yuxia Zhang <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:07:07 +0800

thanks, inline

  _____  

From: Chris Boulton [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 6:28 PM
To: Yuxia Zhang
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [MEDIACTRL] Media Control Channel Framwork

well, I get it. Thanks!

[Chris Boulton] Yes. 

 [isal] thanks

by SIP+SDP.

[Chris Boulton] there is no stipulation that a control channel has to be set
up before a media dialog is processed.  In reality – the majority of cases
will result in a control channel being set up in preparation for use at the
start. 

[Isal] agreed. it is true that a control channel can be set up at any
time.However, 

 it means the control channel can be established with the SIP MEDIA DiALOG
signal "channel" together, so it is not suitable that the  correlative
mechanism containning the "dialog ID"  SIP dialog information in SYNC
request. beacause they-both the control channel and SIP MEDIA DIALOG signal
are the same SIP dialog, and in case it is not synchronous for the SIP media
dialog interaction and SIP media control interaction.   That is also further
explation for the below question.

[Chris Boulton] I’m not quite sure of the question BUT it must be
remembered that the offer/answer associated with the media control channel
is like any other.  The correlation between the underlying control channel
and SIP dialog will always be necessary. 

Chris.

Isal

  _____  

 

hi, Boulton

 

Isal

  _____  

Thanks.

Chris.

---

From: "Chris Boulton" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 12:55:15 +0100

but acturally, I think another case where the media control channel can
be established separately by another SIP+SDP, after 

the media SIP dialog for a media resource service application is
established by SIP+SDP.

[Chris Boulton] there is no stipulation that a control channel has to be
set up before a media dialog is processed.  In reality - the majority of
cases will result in a control channel being set up in preparation for
use at the start. 

 it means the control channel can be established with the SIP MEDIA
DiALOG signal "channel" together,

[Chris Boulton] Do you mean in the same SDP?  Sure this can happen.

 so it is not suitable that the  correlative mechanism containning the
"dialog ID"  SIP dialog information in SYNC request. beacause they-both
the control channel and SIP MEDIA DIALOG signal are the same SIP dialog,
and in case it is not synchronous for the SIP media dialog interaction
and SIP media control interaction.   That is also further explation for
the below question.

[Chris Boulton] I'm a little lost as to why this is so bad.  Sure, its
an implementation choice if you want to have multiple media lines in the
same SDP.  If you suspect that there are timing issues waiting for the
SYNC negotiation then don't implement it this way.  Perhaps I am missing
something.

Chris.

---

From: "Bourshan, Yoella" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:18:08 +0300

Hi, Boulton,

I would like to ask you a question involved in the draft of media
control channel framework.

On page 22 Version 2 Section 6.3.1 in the 4th paragraph the following is
written:

Once the initial SYNC transaction is completed, either client MAY
   choose to send a subsequent new SYNC Control Framework message to re-
   negotiate the packages that are supported within the control channel.
   A new SYNC message whose Packages header has different values from
   the previous SYNC message can effectively add and delete the packages
   used in the control channel.  If a client receiving a subsequent SYNC
   message does not wish to change the set of packages, it MUST respond
   with a 421 Control Framework response code.  Subsequent SYNC messages
   MUST NOT change the value of the "Dialog-ID" and "Keep-Alive" Control
   Framework headers that appeared in the original SYNC negotiation.
 
Can the client receive a SYNC message in this situation? It seems like
it has to be
"If a server receiving a subsequent SYNC..." 
 
What do you think?
 
Thanks
Yoella