Subject: References in the Berlin Draft

From: Brian Rosen <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 13:57:46 -0400

Scott, Glen, Tom

In the Berlin draft, IETF references have been downgraded
to informative.  ITU references are normative.

I take it that ITU is unwilling to reference IETF RFCs in
their documents.  I note that they ARE willing to reference
ATM Forum documents.

As a practical matter, they are NORMATIVE.  As an excellent
example, please consider the IPSEC documents.  Someone should
address this silliness ASAP.  I will, at the very least,
change the headings for the IETF version.

Brian

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From: Chip Sharp <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 17:54:46 -0400

I brought this up in the Friday meeting at SG16.  It was explained to me by
the Q13 Rapporteur that this was a way to finesse the restrictions placed
by ITU on referencing IETF documents.  The ITU Recommendation A.5 described
how to reference IETF RFCs.

I believe that those IETF RFCs required to operate correctly should be
normative.  This will be addressed again in the October meeting.

Chip

>change the headings for the IETF version.

--------------------------------------------------
Chip Sharp                 Consulting Engineering
Cisco Systems              Telco Bio-region
Reality - Love it or Leave it.
--------------------------------------------------

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From: Chip Sharp <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 13:43:57 -0400

I written up the request per ITU Recommendation A.5 to allow the IETF
references in H.248.  This will go in as a contribution to the next
Rapporteur's meeting.

I'd like to know which of these references the group feels should be
normative and which should be informative and which should be dropped
altogether.  I don't think all of them are normative.

Right now, I have the following:
RFC 1889 RTP            Informative
RFC 1890 RTP Profile    Normative
RFC 2327 SDP            Normative
RFC 2543 SIP            Informative/Bibliography
RFC 2326 RTSP           Drop reference
RFC 2401 Sec Arch       Informative
RFC 2402 IPSEC AH       Normative
RFC 2406 IPSEC ESP      Informative
RFC 2234 ABNF           Normative

Please provide comments.

Thanks,
Chip

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From: Matt Holdrege <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 14:01:18 -0700

>RFC 2406 IPSEC ESP      Informative

Just curious. Why is ESP Informative? It's an IETF Standards Track protocol
and perfectly valid for use with H.248.

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From: Chip Sharp <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 12:38:39 -0400

At 02:01 PM 8/17/99 -0700, Matt Holdrege wrote:
>Just curious. Why is ESP Informative? It's an IETF Standards Track
>protocol and perfectly valid for use with H.248.

I just took a stab at it.  Those things that I think are required for the
protocol to work I made Normative. Anything else is informative.  AH was
Normative just because it was on my mind due to all the email flying around
about AH.
I don't have any problems changing it to Normative.  I believe Glen is
currently investigating the procedures for dealing with this in ITU.

Chip