Subject: Re: [MOBILE-IP] PPP support in 3Gwireless

From: Jim Willkie <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 16:24:13 -0800

At 05:07 PM 11/17/99 -0600, Lipford, Mark wrote:
>Point 1 (Microsoft implementing PPP) I agree we need this to happen.
>
>Your point 2 is confusing.  How does implementing IS-707 model in the mobile
>help?  The fact is we MUST utilize IS-707 between the mobile and the PDSN.
>That is the standard that defines how data (packet, circuit, digital fax,
>analog fax) is sent over bother a 2G CDMA network (IS-95a and IS-95b)
>network, and a cdma2000 (3G) network.  Is has nothing to do with PPP.
>IS-707 only defines how data is sent over the RF network that is using
>cdmaOne or cdma2000 physical channels.

Ok I'll explain at the risk of being flamed for being off topic (perhaps
this will close the thread).

IS-707 Packet services has a Network Model and a Relay model. The Network
model is assumed by many to be the proper choice for implementing MobileIP
Mobile Node Registration in the mobile.

The IS-707 Network model has 2 PPP links: 1 between laptop and mobile, the
other between mobile and PDSN. A change to a new PDSN changes the PPP link
between mobile and the new PDSN. The laptop PPP link stays up and is not
affected. So the poorly behaving msoft PPP implementation does not re-sync
with the Network model and all is well.

As an aside it seems MobileIP has been a standard without a market for a
few years now. Now we are seeing that the wireless world (mostly cellular)
is looking like the the long lost mobileIP market. So it would seem to me
that a discussion regarding how mobileIP would operate in the cellular
world would be within topic for the mobileIP mailing list. So to my mind
attempts to curtail this topic are shortsighted and narrow minded... if
people want to flame on this list I suggest it makes more sense to vent
against the schmoes that advertise mobile home things on this list...

Jim Willkie

>               -----Original Message-----
>               From:   Jim Willkie [mailto:[email-masked]]
>               Sent:   Wednesday, November 17, 1999 11:05 AM
>               To:     [email-masked]
>               Subject:        Re: [MOBILE-IP] PPP support in 3Gwireless
>
>               Folks:
>               Below I'd like to add a bit to Tom's comments...
>
>               At 11:18 AM 11/16/99 -0600, Tom Hiller wrote:
>               >Quiang,
>               >
>               >PPP at this stage of cdma2000 standards is "automatic" in
>the sense we have no
>               >other link protocol to the user: The user must run PPP. In
>a future version
>               >cdma2000 may have an alternate data link. This is uncertain
>at the moment.
>               >
>               >Generally cdma2000 supports two access mechanisms. (1) PPP
>access (2)
>               Mobile IP
>               >
>               >When the mobile moves to a new Packet Data Service Node
>(PDSN -- contains
>               a NAS
>               >and FA), the PDSN will restart PPP to the mobile
>automatically. It is a
>               >requirement that that a PPP implementation not reset the
>entire IP stack above
>               >it for Mobile IP.
>               >
>               >A given PDSN will have moderately wide coverage (e.g. a
>large city) for a
>               >couple
>               >of reasons: (1) there is an Radio Access Networks (RAN) to
>PDSN interface that
>               >supports mobility between multiple RANs while maintaining
>connectivity to the
>               >same PDSN so that PPP needs to restart less frequently (2)
>Some deployed Radio
>               >Access Networks are really quite large and cover much of a
>large city.
>               >
>               >Thus, Mobile IP provides a persistent addresses with very
>wide mobility, but
>               >PPP
>               >implementations need to be "enhanced" to not reset the rest
>of the IP
>               stack for
>               >Mobile IP users. For those users in which PPP is not
>"enhanced" and no
>               >Mobile IP
>               >client exists on their device, cdma2000 users will still
>have a some mobility
>               >that is not as extensive as supported by Mobile IP.
>
>               There are actually 2 means available to avoid the 'resetting
>the IP stack':
>               1) get Microsoft to make their PPP implementation(s) to
>behave correctly or
>               2) implement the IS-707* Packet Network model in the mobile.
>
>               For a MobileIP solution the Network model method is viewed
>(here at QC at
>               least) as required anyway in order to perform Mobile Node
>registration at
>               the mobile. So this would make the poorly behaving Msoft PPP
>a mute point,
>               at least for the MobileIP case.
>
>               Jim Willkie
>
>
>               >Qiang Zhang wrote:
>               >>
>               >> I have questions regarding the PPP support in the 3G
>wireless network,
>               >> please clarify.
>               >>
>               >> Would the PPP support tend to be very automatic? Thus,
>being transparent to
>               >> the user, the device will be able to initiate PPP session
>whenever it enters
>               >> a new network, is this true?    If it is true, we know
>this will have impact
>               >> on the applications because if there is a "release IP"
>and "obtain new IP"
>               >> procedure, a lot applications  basically just chicken
>out.
>               >>
>               >> Is there solution out there already it is left to the
>implementations? Where
>               >> can I find corresponding document if any. Thank you!
>               >>
>               >> -Qiang
>               >>
>               >> 1100 Warnings!
>               >> --Line 100000: 3 cokes shut down your immune system for
>24 hours, so stay
>               >> away from sodas!

---

From: Behcet Sarikaya <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 11:45:03 +0900

I would like to from where we can get information on CDMA2000
standardization?
Is it www.3gpp.org?

--
Behcet Sarikaya
Computer Communications Lab.
The University of Aizu
Tsuruga, Ikki-machi, Aizu-wakamatsu City
Fukushima, 965-8580 Japan
Tel. +81-242-37-2559 Fax. +81-242-37-2742
Home page:  http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp/~sarikaya/
email: [email-masked]

---

From: Raymond Hsu <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 19:06:22 -0800

You can get high-level information on cdma2000 standardization from

www.3gpp2.org.  Please note that it is NOT www.3gpp.org

3GPP is a different organization from 3GPP2.  3GPP is for w-cdma

standardization, and 3GPP2 is for cdma2000 standardization.

Raymond Hsu

Qualcomm Inc.

At 11:45 AM 11/18/99 +0900, Behcet Sarikaya wrote:

<excerpt>I would like to from where we can get information on CDMA2000
standardization?

Is it www.3gpp.org? --&nbsp;

Behcet Sarikaya

The University of Aizu

Tel. +81-242-37-2559 Fax. +81-242-37-2742&nbsp;

Home page:&nbsp;
<<http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp/~sarikaya/>http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp/~sarikaya/

</excerpt><<<<<<<<