Subject: [Mtgvenue] Slides for draft-krishnan-ietf-meeting-policy-01

From: Suresh Krishnan <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 12:36:29 +0000

Hi Melinda and Jonne,
   Here are the slides for my presentation. Sorry for not sending them in 
earlier.

Thanks
Suresh

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From: Dave Crocker <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 15:16:41 +0200

On 7/18/2016 2:36 PM, Suresh Krishnan wrote:
 > #1 Should attracting new participants one of the
 > stated goals of this policy?

This is an extremely appealing and extremely persistent pressure for 
discussing unusual venues.  I suggest it has two basic problems.

First is why we think it will be useful.  The premise is that 'local' 
new folk will show up at the meeting in this unusual venue and will find 
the IETF work so appealing they will then engage in the IETF, going 
forward, in spite of the IETF's not being likely to re-visit that local. 
  To my knowledge, we have no empirical basis for expecting this model 
to succeed.  We w

Second is that this model is exactly contrary to the overriding premise 
of the IETF, namely that primary work gets done /on the net/.  If one is 
to become active in the IETF, they need to be comfortable working over 
the net, especially via mailing lists.  Indeed, people engage with the 
IETF through this path all the time.  We always need to look for ways to 
make that easier and/or more effective, but we already know it's viable.

For extra credit I'll note that unusual venues also are likely to get 
/less/ attendance by existing core contributors who do not automatically 
attend all IETF meetings.  They are less likely exactly because unusual 
venues are out of the mainstream for meetings.  That typically will mean 
greater personal expense in funds and/or time.

So, ultimately, the recruitment goal winds up making it likely that less 
productive work will get done /and/ that it won't recruit the desired 
new folk.

d/
-- 

   Dave Crocker
   Brandenburg InternetWorking
   bbiw.net

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From: Andrew Sullivan <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 09:53:37 -0400

Hi,

On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 03:16:41PM +0200, Dave Crocker wrote:

> For extra credit I'll note that unusual venues also are likely to get /less/
> attendance by existing core contributors who do not automatically attend all
> IETF meetings.

The reason I like the effort to count things is because at the moment
the above claim is really an assertion, and not anything we can verify
(the case of attracting new participants is similarly without
evidence, as you note).  I think having evidence about what has
happened would be nice.

A

-- 
Andrew Sullivan
[email-masked]