Subject: [Mtgvenue] Additional [Desired] meeting venue criterion

From: Tim Chown <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2016 01:26:24 +0000

Hi,

I’d like to propose adding something like

“The Venue has a good sized, open bar/restaurant/seating area, preferably on the ground/entrance floor, that facilitates communal interaction by attendees.” [Desired]

perhaps in 3.2.

Having chatted to a few people this morning, the lack of this facility in Seoul was pretty much the only negative comment about this week’s meeting venue.

Tim

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From: Dave Crocker <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2016 13:46:40 +0900

On 11/18/2016 10:26 AM, Tim Chown wrote:
> “The Venue has a good sized, open bar/restaurant/seating area,
> preferably on the ground/entrance floor, that facilitates communal
> interaction by attendees.” [Desired]

Since that does reflect a common feature that the community likes and 
there's no redundant or competing text already in the doc, and since 
you've classed it as 'desired', I'll add it without further discussion.

<Usual disclaimers about easy reversibility go here. />

d/

-- 

   Dave Crocker
   Brandenburg InternetWorking
   bbiw.net

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From: Mary Barnes <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2016 17:00:03 -0600

So, this is where I see that adding priorities to this category is
necessary, because I'd certainly be massively peeved if there was a
tradeoff in a selection venue such that the bar requirement was satisfied
and grocery store was not.  I would really hope that folks being able to
easily find foods to eat is considered more important than a hotel bar.   I
would think a tradeoff for the bar/drink issue would be to ask the hotel to
put a cash bar in the IETF lounge area or some such for a few hours in the
evening.

Regards,
Mary.

On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 10:46 PM, Dave Crocker <[email-masked]> wrote:

> there's no redundant or competing text already in the doc, and since you've
> classed it as 'desired', I'll add it without further discussion.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mtgvenue mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mtgvenue
>

---

From: Tim Chown <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 17:53:00 +0000

> On 19 Nov 2016, at 23:00, Mary Barnes <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> So, this is where I see that adding priorities to this category is necessary, because I'd certainly be massively peeved if there was a tradeoff in a selection venue such that the bar requirement was satisfied and grocery store was not.  I would really hope that folks being able to easily find foods to eat is considered more important than a hotel bar.   I would think a tradeoff for the bar/drink issue would be to ask the hotel to put a cash bar in the IETF lounge area or some such for a few hours in the evening.

It’s not about a bar. It’s about having social space you can hang around in, do a bit of email or draft editing, and bump into friends. That was missing in Seoul. There were many nooks and crannies to meet quietly in, which was good, but no social space. 

If there’s the option to buy drinks / snacks there, great.

Tim

> 
> Regards,
> Mary. 
> 
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 10:46 PM, Dave Crocker <[email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
> Since that does reflect a common feature that the community likes and there's no redundant or competing text already in the doc, and since you've classed it as 'desired', I'll add it without further discussion.
> 
>   bbiw.net <http://bbiw.net/>
> 
> [email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mtgvenue <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mtgvenue>
>

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From: Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 22:36:19 -0500

I want to +10 what Tim said...  the canonical lounge is where work gets done,  particularly if you are. not staying on site.  Table service is important,  some food and some drink... 

On 20 November 2016 12:53:00 GMT-05:00, Tim Chown <[email-masked]> wrote:
>tradeoff in a selection venue such that the bar requirement was
>satisfied and grocery store was not.  I would really hope that folks
>being able to easily find foods to eat is considered more important
>than a hotel bar.   I would think a tradeoff for the bar/drink issue
>would be to ask the hotel to put a cash bar in the IETF lounge area or
>some such for a few hours in the evening.
>
>It’s not about a bar. It’s about having social space you can hang
>around in, do a bit of email or draft editing, and bump into friends.
>That was missing in Seoul. There were many nooks and crannies to meet
>quietly in, which was good, but no social space. 
>
><https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mtgvenue>
>> 
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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From: Dave Crocker <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 07:19:10 -0800

On 11/20/2016 9:53 AM, Tim Chown wrote:
> It’s not about a bar. It’s about having social space you can hang around
> in, do a bit of email or draft editing, and bump into friends. That was
> missing in Seoul. There were many nooks and crannies to meet quietly in,
> which was good, but no social space.
>

For at least one IETF, throughout the entire week, there was such a 
'lounge' area created in normal meeting space.  My impression was that 
that worked well.

d/

-- 

   Dave Crocker

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From: Ted Lemon <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 10:37:30 -0500

On Nov 21, 2016, at 10:19 AM, Dave Crocker <[email-masked]> wrote:
> For at least one IETF, throughout the entire week, there was such a 'lounge' area created in normal meeting space.  My impression was that that worked well.

I found the lounges on the sixth floor in the Conrad pretty conducive.   Could have used more of them, but it seemed like a similar amount of seating to e.g. the bar in Buenos Aires, just spread out more, which was actually a good thing.

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From: Dave Crocker <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 07:42:22 -0800

On 11/21/2016 7:37 AM, Ted Lemon wrote:
> I found the lounges on the sixth floor in the Conrad pretty conducive.

The idea of that space was great.

The amount of seating/meeting space was not, by at least a factor of 
10-20, IMO.

d/

ps. but I can be easily bought, and might have had a different opinion 
if the cappuccino machine there had been available all the time...

-- 

   Dave Crocker

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From: Ted Lemon <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 11:03:01 -0500

On Nov 21, 2016, at 10:42 AM, Dave Crocker <[email-masked]> wrote:
> ps. but I can be easily bought, and might have had a different opinion if the cappuccino machine there had been available all the time...

:)

I would have liked it better if there’d been a steady coffee drip…

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From: Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 12:23:42 -0500

Ted Lemon <[email-masked]> wrote:
    > I would have liked it better if there’d been a steady coffee drip

The space was great if you could make pre-arrangement to meet there.

But the point of the canonical bar/lounge is that you run into people that
you didn't realize until you saw them, that you needed to talk to.

Thus the "drip" (whether american coffee or australian coffee... i.e. beer)
is important, because it's what attracts people to sit.

Meetings without such a place (such as mentioned, Vienna, which I was at),
suffer from lack of unplanned cross-polination.

(more 'unstructured' time)

--
Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>, Sandelman Software Works
 -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-

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From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 15:43:29 -0600

I'm glad I read this thread to the bottom before commenting, because

> you didn't realize until you saw them, that you needed to talk to.

That's exactly my (staying in the Kensington) experience from Seoul, and,
yes, it's the only thing I found that was missing and not easily routed
around.

Spencer