Subject: [Mtgvenue] Review of draft-ietf-mtgvenue-iaoc-venue-selection-process-04

From: "John Dickinson" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 18:58:25 +0000

Thanks to all who have put so much work into this draft and to the past 
meeting organisers who have organised many fantastic meetings.

As a wheelchair user I have a few comments…

§3.1. There is no mention of accessible transport between airport and 
hotel. At every meeting I have to remotely pre-book a wheelchair 
accessible taxi for the airport transfer, some of which (even though 
arranged via the venue hotel) turned out to be unsuitable/unsafe. At the 
last Hawaii IETF we were told that there was only one wheelchair capable 
taxi on the entire island that had to be booked days in advance for any 
trip!

§3.2. Could someone explain the reasoning behind the different 
requirements levels for “The Facility permits easy wheelchair 
access.” and “The Facility is accessible by people with 
disabilities.”? I have just seen the discussion between Dave and 
Stephen. Dave, could your comments defending the difference be added to 
the draft to justify the distinction.

§3.4 Same question again. Also, I would like to see some mention of a 
pool of accessible rooms being available in the IETF reservation and 
that those rooms be reserved for people who require them. I don’t know 
how large this pool needs to be. In Yokohama due to maintenance at the 
hotel there were no fully wheelchair accessible rooms in the hotel.

§3.5 “as well as areas within a reasonable walking distance
or conveniently accessible by a short taxi, bus, or
subway ride, have convenient and inexpensive
choices for meals that can accommodate a wide range
of dietary requirements.”

A reasonable number of the areas and restaurants also need to be 
accessible. In Toronto, and Berlin we ended up using a bike lock to 
secure my chair in the street. IIRC the state of the sidewalks in 
Toronto were almost inaccessible for people without disabilities! The 
pavements in Bueno Aires were also heavily damaged in places.

Venue and Lodging:
In several recent meetings there have been areas of the hotel or venue 
that were off limits due to wheelchair lifts that could only be operated 
by a member of staff with a key. I am lucky enough that I can still walk 
short distances but for others it would (in Toronto I think) have 
prevented access to the bar!

Heavy doors: It is often the case that meeting room doors are so heavy 
they could not be opened by an unaccompanied wheelchair user.

I have been to several meetings (not just ietf) where coaches to social 
events could not accommodate a non-collapsible chair. I either walk on 
the coach and hope that the other end does not involve too much walking 
or I have to make my own way there.

In general, the document is very light on accessibility issues and 
perhaps, given the wide range of potential disabilities, the authors 
could consider getting some professional advice. Maybe it is something 
the ADA could help with??

I know we don’t live in a perfect world and I don’t expect 
everything I described to be perfect in every location but at least 
these things (among may others) should be considered.

John Dickinson

http://sinodun.com

Sinodun Internet Technologies Ltd.
Magdalen Centre
Oxford Science Park
Robert Robinson Avenue
Oxford OX4 4GA
U.K.

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From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 08:26:09 +1300

John,

> the ADA could help with??

Possibly this issue is complex enough that it needs to be the subject
of a separate document (which doesn't especially need to be an RFC).
In this document we could focus on the IAOC's responsibilities to
address this topic and to seek advice. You raise the issue of rough
sidewalks, which for most of us was just an annoyance in Toronto; I'm
sure that people with poor sight or hearing have their own issues at
certain meetings.

Regards
   Brian

On 31/01/2017 07:58, John Dickinson wrote:
> _______________________________________________
> Mtgvenue mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mtgvenue
>

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From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 05:04:35 -0600

Hi, All,

On Jan 30, 2017 13:26, "Brian E Carpenter" <[email-masked]>
wrote:

John,

Regards
   Brian

> hotel there were no fully wheelchair accessible rooms in the hotel.

I apologize in advance for this, but do people have a sense of how often
"is this venue accessible?" (for some value of "accessible") degenerates
into "well, it WAS accessible, but the city nuked the sidewalks two weeks
before the meeting/the hotel started renovations on the accessible
facilities we were counting on/etc."?

The answer to that may just point out imperfect our world is, so no
document change is required, but I thought I should ask, even if it's to
improve my own understanding ...

Thanks,

Spencer

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From: "John Dickinson" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 11:25:05 +0000

> improve my own understanding ...

You are correct the city could have nuked the sidewalks two weeks before and it is an imperfect world. However, on this point, the contract with the hotel could make accessible rooms a requirement and given the length of time between contract and meeting I don’t think it unreasonable to expect them to arrange their maintenance around the meeting.

Thanks

John

John Dickinson

http://sinodun.com