Subject: Re: LLMNR consensus statement

From: Simon Josefsson <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 10:17:47 +0100

Ólafur Guðmundsson <[email-masked]> writes:

> Therefore we propose to Inform the AD that this working group has no
> quorum to continue work on this document and that it be published as
> an informational document.

If this WG didn't have the resources to review it, moving it forward
on the standards track as an individual submission is another option.

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From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 14:34:15 +0100

On Thu, Feb 16, 2006 at 06:26:56PM -0500,
 Ólafur Guðmundsson <[email-masked]> wrote 
 a message of 52 lines which said:

> We would also like to working group for support to work on DNS and
> naming API interfaces, such as are in RFC 3493-bis ,in the light of
> DNSSEC, ldap, mdns and llmnr.

Is there a kind soul which can provide a list of pointers to API
proposals? I find no 3493-bis anywhere and no actual proposals, just
vague ideas about how to extend getaddrinfo().

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From: Simon Josefsson <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 15:33:40 +0100

> vague ideas about how to extend getaddrinfo().

For IDN, I have proposed an extension for getaddrinfo:

http://josefsson.org/libidn/getaddrinfo-idn.txt

That is widely deployed today, and may be on the path towards POSIX
standardization.

There are other C APIs for generic DNS lookups, compare BINDv9's
getrrsetbyname.  It doesn't provide asynchronous operations, though,
as far as I know, so it has limited applicability.

I'm not sure IETF is the best place to standardize any of this though.
It doesn't seem to be within this WG's charter.  I'd rather see other
documents get done (like NSEC3) before this WG take on additional
work.  If the WG isn't reviewing its own work items, it doesn't seem
like it should take on even more stuff.

Cheers,
Simon

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From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 15:41:39 +0100

On Fri, Feb 17, 2006 at 03:33:40PM +0100,
 Simon Josefsson <[email-masked]> wrote 
 a message of 33 lines which said:

> There are other C APIs for generic DNS lookups, 

Warning, I was talking about resolution-agnostic APIs like
getaddrinfo() (which works as well for LDAP, /etc/hosts, DNS...).

> I'm not sure IETF is the best place to standardize any of this

Neither am I but:

1) It is an interesting subject, anyway, and worth studying.

2) Some people raised the issue during the IETF Last Call and,
unfortunately, it seems to have been seriously considered (instead of
being dismissed as out-of-scope).

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From: Wes Hardaker <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 11:35:44 -0800

>>>>> On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 15:41:39 +0100, Stephane Bortzmeyer <[email-masked]> said:

Stephane> Neither am I but:

Stephane> 1) It is an interesting subject, anyway, and worth studying.

We're interested heavily in it too and have a -00 ID that should be
published by the cutoff date with a bunch of DNSSEC aware API calls
that both allow you to match existing APIs as much as possible as well
as let you give greater control over the policies the APIs are likely
internally going to have to implement.  [the dnssec-tools project on
sourceforge already has a prototype implementation of the APIs as well]

If there is enough people that thinks the work should be done, then I
think it should be done.  As to when the timing is right, that's
certainly a good question.

-- 
Wes Hardaker
Sparta, Inc.

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From: Wes Hardaker <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 11:59:01 -0800

>>>>> On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 11:35:44 -0800, Wes Hardaker <[email-masked]> said:

Wes> We're interested heavily in it too and have a -00 ID that should be
Wes> published by the cutoff date with a bunch of DNSSEC aware API
Wes> calls

Whoops...  forgot this was in the IDN part of the discussion in my
head as I was tracing the thread....  The document I referred to
doesn't have any IDN specific stuff in it.

-- 
Wes Hardaker
Sparta, Inc.

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From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 09:08:12 +0100

On Mon, Feb 20, 2006 at 11:59:01AM -0800,
 Wes Hardaker <[email-masked]> wrote 
 a message of 16 lines which said:

> forgot this was in the IDN part of the discussion in my head as I
> was tracing the thread....

Not at all, Simon mentioned IDN, but the real issue was LLMNR (how to
report to the application that the resolution was made with LLMNR or
DNS or LDAP because some applications may care).

---

From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 09:09:59 +0100

On Mon, Feb 20, 2006 at 11:35:44AM -0800,
 Wes Hardaker <[email-masked]> wrote 
 a message of 20 lines which said:

> a bunch of DNSSEC aware API calls that both allow you to match
> existing APIs as much as possible as well as let you give greater
> control over the policies the APIs are likely internally going to
> have to implement.

It is DNSSEC-specific? Because I believe that some people would want
to have other information as well, such as wether getaddrinfo() was
actually done with LLMNR or DNS or /etc/hosts (the starting point of a
rather silly flame during the last call).

---

From: Wes Hardaker <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 07:37:34 -0800

>>>>> On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 09:09:59 +0100, Stephane Bortzmeyer <[email-masked]> said:

>> control over the policies the APIs are likely internally going to

Stephane> It is DNSSEC-specific? Because I believe that some people
Stephane> would want to have other information as well, such as wether
Stephane> getaddrinfo() was actually done with LLMNR or DNS or
Stephane> /etc/hosts (the starting point of a rather silly flame
Stephane> during the last call).

We (and by "we" I mean my co-workers who did all the work not me)
wrote it primarily to solve some of our dnssec specific issues with
existing APIs.  However, certainly it makes sense to make sure that
anything new that is defined can handle all the problems at once!  We'd
certainly be interested in review for other issues too.

-- 
Wes Hardaker
Sparta, Inc.