Subject: [nfsv4] Minutes from June 27, 2006 Conference Call

From: Lisa Week <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 00:10:57 -0600

IETF NFSv4 Working Group Conference Call
June 27, 2006
Note:
1.) Please make sure to update the status of issues that you are working 
on in the Issue Tracker.
URL: http://www.nfsv4-editor.org/cgi-bin/roundup/nfsv4

Agenda:
======
* Discussion of v4.1 changes in the referral/replication/migration area.
    - What concerns exists and what issues will need special attention 
in this area as we start moving toward finishing up.  In particular, I'd 
like to know of anything for which we need to allocate time in Montreal.
 
* Review of issues in state wg-discuss.
    - What can be done to move these toward resolution?  What are the 
big rocks that might require FTF discussion in Montreal to resolve?
 
* Schedule issues:
    - When should we say "nothing more, even small items"? What possible 
additions, not in the issue tracker do we know about?
    - Get opinions on what the proper set of milestones are.  Don't 
expect to close on this but I'd like to push discussion forward.

Agenda Additions:
=============
* Discussion about issue of what implementation experience should we 
require for features.  What is everyone's opinion.  It is assumed that 
this will be discussed in Montreal.

* Discussion about agenda items for the WG Meeting in Montreal.

Minutes:
======
* Next concall is in 4 weeks (July 25).

* Proposed agenda items for the WG meeting in Montreal:
    - Internet Draft,  NFSv4 Minor Version
    - What are the self imposed rules on when the I-D can be released to 
IESG
    - Location proposal included in the draft
    - pNFS (where are implementations and what issues remain)
    - RDMA drafts ready for WG last call...are we ready to go?
    - Bakeathon planning
    - Form of encoding for attributes for referrals (20 minutes)
       - Take a look at the client side view...
    - Issue #53 - Add data retention support

(The agenda has been posted: 
http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/06jul/agenda/nfsv4.txt)

* Spencer has been making changes for the next I-D, but has held off on 
submitting a new 400 page document.  Spencer will post a pre-draft to 
nfsv4 editor site w/ resolved issues included.  Will post this before 
the end of the week.  From this point forward, all postings will have 
the corresponding XML.  REAL internet draft will be posted toward the 
end of the week of the IETF meeting.

Dave to post the URL for Reclaim complete to the issue tracker.

Discussion on referral/replication/migration:
--------------------------------------------------------------
* Single server namespace text, is now in its own chapter (chapter 4).
* Chapter 6 - expansion on the referrals doc, including all migration 
and referral cases.
* Stuff that already existed (location structures) is still there, but 
has been modified to reflect the items that have been suggested on WG alias.
* Big change in the structure of the attributes, fs_locations_info / 
fs_status.  The doc included an encoding which got mixed opinions.  Dave 
has given a new structure to address the compactness in the structure of 
the attributes.  Question on whether this is going to cause issues with 
the client implementations and interoperability nightmares? We will have 
to have the discussion around these issues to make sure we have 
consensus on if this is the way we need to move forward.

Overview of Issues classified as "wg-discuss":
---------------------------------------------------------------
Why are there issues classified there, can we move them forward?

* Issue #51: Directory Delegation Changes - Spencer takes AI of starting 
discussion on WG alias or get it to the point where he knows what the 
text proposal for the doc.

* Issue #53: Data Retention  - Mike Eisler to send something out this week.

* Issue #6: Migrated clientids - This issue may be able to be gotten rid 
of in lieu of the location_info proposal.

* Issue #26: NFS4ERR_RESOURCE - Dave's comment to Mike was, in light of 
limits on cache request, what is there a remaining need for 
NFS4ERR_RESOURCE since there will be a restriction on the size of 
non-idempotent requests?  The answer to this was, yes, having servers 
that can return NFS4ERR_RESOURCE when things "get too complex" (for 
whatever that means) is needed.
Mike to generate a proposal - when he first wrote up this issue, he 
didn't know that sessions were mandatory.  The fact that 
NFS4ERR_RESOURCE is a HARD error (this means that the client cannot just 
retry)  should be addressed in the 3530 update.

* Issue #40: DS and MDS w/ different security mechanisms in use - This 
issue needs more discussion.  Is this when they both speak files?  Will 
SECINFO changes in 4.1 will allow us to do this?

* Issue #46: Extend fs_locations to support arbitrary string based 
attributes - Background: A number of people that have issues such as 
/usr/bin on client A should be different than /usr/bin on client B.  One 
solution is that we could assign fs_location info entries for strings 
like cpu type, etc. and client will use that to use that to decide which 
replica, location to get the data from.  Another solution is, Server 
based solution: return a location string that embedded in it 
servername:</path/name/[cpu type]>.  Discussion to move to the WG...

* Issue #52: NFSv4.1 client should be able to say that it supports 
referrals or not -
Argument for the need of this capability: Currently, the GX (NetApp) box 
forwards NFS requests from one filer to another... what if a client is 
not able to handle referrals?  Server should be able to compensate.  
There were comments made as to whether or not this can be generalized to 
be a capabilities mechanism.  The discussion is to move to WG alias.

* Issue #55: Attribute for when to write through MDS to DS - Owned by Garth

* Issue #57: Private layout range - Owned by Garth

* Issue #69: File layout striping structure - Garth just sent mail

* Issues 16,17,25,34,65 - all related and Dave will try to get a 
proposal out to the WG alias in the next week or so.

* Issue #64: Explanatory text on stateid - Dave will come up with 
something that matches reality w/ what existing implementations do.  
Make sure what he says is broad enough to encompass all implementations.

* Issue #58: pnfs: layout return flag for fsid returns - Benny sent text 
to alias, but would like to change proposal to use CURRENT FH.  Benny 
has concerns about the bigger issue about synchronizing gets and 
returns.  Benny says that Issue #19 is okay, but will continue thinking 
about the current issue and will write a proposal.

Attendees:
=========
Dave Noveck - NetApp
Sam Falkner - Sun
Spencer Shepler - Sun
Lisa Week - Sun
Andy Adamson - CITI
Tom Talpey - NetApp
Sergey - Hummingbird
Tom Vanderputten - EMC
Todd Pisek - Sun
David Sheffield - IBM
Benny Halevy - Panasas
Trond, Bruce, James - CITI
Mike Eisler - Netapp

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