Subject: Re: [nfsv4] Further Splitting up rfc5661bis

From: Magnus Westerlund <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2021 10:40:28 +0000

Thanks Dave,

As you describe it this structure appears to provide a more accessible 
division of the parts. However, my knowledge of NFS is still limited so I am 
not a good indicator if there will be significant issues with this split. I 
really hope the WG can  provide their views if it makes sense for this split 
before Dave spends more time to actual realize this.

Cheers

Magnus Westerlund

From: David Noveck <[email-masked]>
Sent: den 28 februari 2021 16:41
To: Magnus Westerlund <[email-masked]>; NFSv4 <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Further Splitting up rfc5661bis

At the last meeting, I presented the then-existing plans for publishing 
rfc5661bis as a multiple-document set. With security, internationalization, 
and minor versioning dealt with in nfsv4-wide documents, rfc5661bis was to be 
divided into the two following documents:

*	Rfc5661bis-discussion was to consist of sections 1-15, 23, and 24 of the 
existing rfc5661bis I-D.

*	Rfc5661bis-reference was to consist of sections 16-21 of the existing 
rfc5661bis I-D.

At that time, Magnus asked me to look at the possibility of further 
subdividing the document.  I have now completed that investigation and will 
present a brief summary of my plans now.  The actual split-up will be 
available in April in the form of a set of rfc5661bis I-D's.

As I looked at the two-division approach, I concluded that:

*	The reference document at a little under 300 pages, while bigger than one 
would like, does not offer opportunities for further division without 
confusing readers and should be left as proposed.

*	The discussion document, at around 400 pages, can be subdivided reasonably, 
without confusing readers.

I'm anticipating the following five-document approach to an rfc5661bis 
document suite.  This will make the review process easier but the publication 
process will not be much faster since it is likely that all of the documents 
will be done as a single cluster.

*	There will be a short introductory document consisting of sections 1-3 of 
the current bis draft. Depending on the size of of the associated reference 
section, it is expected to be about 100 pages.

*	The discussion document will be shortened to significantly to under 200 
pages, by the transfer of material relating to multi-server namespace and pnfs 
file to separate documents together with the creation of the introductory 
document. Also material about authorization-related attributes will move to 
the nfsv4-wide security document.

*	There will be a multi-server-namespace document which will be about 80 
pages.

*	There will be a separate document on the pnfs files layout.  The motivation 
is not primarily document size but rather to help limit the kind of confusion 
that rfc8434 was intended to address.  This will make it more like other 
layout types but it will still be part of the rfc5661bis document suite since 
many aspects the v4. 1 protocol, discussed in the reference document, were 
designed to accommodate the split of file server functionality into separate 
data and metadata server partitions. This document will be about 30 pages.

*	The reference document will be under 300 pages.

---

From: Chuck Lever <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2021 15:39:53 +0000

Hi Dave-

In response to Magnus' request for opinions on this proposal, see below.

> On Feb 28, 2021, at 10:40 AM, David Noveck <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> At the last meeting, I presented the then-existing plans for publishing rfc5661bis as a multiple-document set. With security, internationalization, and minor versioning dealt with in nfsv4-wide documents, rfc5661bis was to be divided into the two following documents:
> 	• Rfc5661bis-discussion was to consist of sections 1-15, 23, and 24 of the existing rfc5661bis I-D.
> 	• Rfc5661bis-reference was to consist of sections 16-21 of the existing rfc5661bis I-D.
> 
> At that time, Magnus asked me to look at the possibility of further subdividing the document.  I have now completed that investigation and will present a brief summary of my plans now.  The actual split-up will be available in April in the form of a set of rfc5661bis I-D's.
> 
> 	• The reference document at a little under 300 pages, while bigger than one would like, does not offer opportunities for further division without confusing readers and should be left as proposed.
> 	• The discussion document, at around 400 pages, can be subdivided reasonably, without confusing readers.
> I'm anticipating the following five-document approach to an rfc5661bis document suite.  This will make the review process easier but the publication process will not be much faster since it is likely that all of the documents will be done as a single cluster.

IMO, optimizing and improving the review process is the primary goal
of more smaller documents, so this is a good compromise in my view.

Splitting up RFC 5661 also provides opportunity for parallelizing the
authorship of these documents, so in the end, it might help speed the
publication of the cluster too.

> 	• There will be a short introductory document consisting of sections 1-3 of the current bis draft. Depending on the size of of the associated reference section, it is expected to be about 100 pages.
> 	• The discussion document will be shortened to significantly to under 200 pages, by the transfer of material relating to multi-server namespace and pnfs file to separate documents together with the creation of the introductory document. Also material about authorization-related attributes will move to the nfsv4-wide security document.
> 	• There will be a multi-server-namespace document which will be about 80 pages.
> 	• There will be a separate document on the pnfs files layout.  The motivation is not primarily document size but rather to help limit the kind of confusion that rfc8434 was intended to address.  This will make it more like other layout types but it will still be part of the rfc5661bis document suite since many aspects the v4. 1 protocol, discussed in the reference document, were designed to accommodate the split of file server functionality into separate data and metadata server partitions. This document will be about 30 pages.
> 	• The reference document will be under 300 pages.

At first blush, this seems like a sensible division to me.

The original RFC5661 publication was in two documents, where the
protocol's XDR specification was split out. For completeness, the
5661bis document roadmap should include the XDR specification,
even if you do not plan to update it.

--
Chuck Lever

---

From: David Noveck <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2021 11:22:11 -0500

On Mon, Mar 1, 2021 at 10:40 AM Chuck Lever <[email-masked]> wrote:

> and minor versioning dealt with in nfsv4-wide documents, rfc5661bis was to
> be divided into the two following documents:
> >       • The reference document at a little under 300 pages, while bigger
> than one would like, does not offer opportunities for further division
> without confusing readers and should be left as proposed.
> document suite.  This will make the review process easier but the
> publication process will not be much faster since it is likely that all of
> the documents will be done as a single cluster.
>

That depends on volunteers.

>
>
> >       • There will be a short introductory document consisting of
> sections 1-3 of the current bis draft. Depending on the size of of the
> associated reference section, it is expected to be about 100 pages.
> >       • The discussion document will be shortened to significantly to
> under 200 pages, by the transfer of material relating to multi-server
> namespace and pnfs file to separate documents together with the creation of
> the introductory document. Also material about authorization-related
> attributes will move to the nfsv4-wide security document.
> >       • There will be a separate document on the pnfs files layout.  The
> motivation is not primarily document size but rather to help limit the kind
> of confusion that rfc8434 was intended to address.  This will make it more
> like other layout types but it will still be part of the rfc5661bis
> document suite since many aspects the v4. 1 protocol, discussed in the
> reference document, were designed to accommodate the split of file server
> functionality into separate data and metadata server partitions. This
> document will be about 30 pages.

That seems to me a sensible reaction :-)

> 5661bis document roadmap should include the XDR specification,

Fair enough, rather than rfc5662bis, it will be rfc5661bis-xdr.

> even if you do not plan to update it.

I think it will be.  IIRC there were rfc5661 errata reports that had
implications for the rfc5662 text.