Subject: Re: (ngtrans) Re: IPv6 only devices in home network

From: "Michael Cole" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 2:38:9 -0500

The reason why we have shortages of Ipv4 addresses is that too many of them 
were allocated at zero or little cost to organizations that do not need /8 
blocks. This is like how California has water shortages even when there is no 
drought because the wholesale and agricultural price for water is almost free 
causing residential users to skimp on baths so that someone else can grow 
alfalfa. They even have a radio jingle that goes something like, "doo doo yes 
tinkle no." You could say the same thing about NAT boxes.

If you do not put a high enough "price" (monetary or otherwise) on 
something people will tend to waste or hoard mass quantities. If the price is 
too high then people will decide to forgo buying something which is what is 
happening to 3G wireless.

There are some Internet Service providers in the U.S. that are willing to 
lease a static global IPv4 address for $7 dollars a month. If GM, MIT, and CMU 
had to pay that much (about $168,000,000 per month) for their /8 blocks they 
sure would lease them out. These guys are paying maybe .001 cent per month per 
address. Even if they only had to pay 10 cents per month per address there would 
be much more equitable distribution of resources.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Steve Pollock  

To: Keith Moore ;Michael Cole 
Cc: ngtrans 

Sent: 11/1/2002 7:30:36 PM 

Subject: Re: (ngtrans) Re: IPv6 only 
devices in home network

At 12:16 AM 10/20/2002 -0400, Michael Cole wrote:

 If General Motors and MIT were to lease out their millions of unused 
global addresses, then Ipv4 shortages would not be so critical. How the hell is 
MIT going to use 24 million mumble something addresses anyways?

But...   why should -anyone- have to "pay" to use an IP 
address.

--- Michael Cole

--- [email-masked] 

--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.

---

From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 07:32:38 -0800

> The reason why we have shortages of Ipv4 addresses

do we have a shortage of v4 ip addresses?

randy

---

From: Tim Chown <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:51:56 +0000

> do we have a shortage of v4 ip addresses?

Perhaps "shortages of globally routable IPv4 addresses available to end
users in a number of environments", like public WLANs, home networks,
networks in hotels, or in public events (like IST2002 where I am now),
etc etc.

The choice of the operator to ask for and use global addresses is not
something the end user can control :(   I can vote with my wallet for
my home network (though it's frustrating that money is required to get more
IPv4 addresses, for whatever reason), but not so usually when attached to 
a public or other network.

Tim

---

From: Keith Moore <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 15:55:16 -0500

> do we have a shortage of v4 ip addresses?

depends on who you mean by "we".

---

From: Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 02:38:20 +0900

>a public or other network.

	as Tony Hain presented at NANOG26, Chinese educational network
	needs over 70 class As if they are to do things with IPv4.
	if we ask Chinese commercial network, or network operators in India,
	we will know we need more.
	and there are only 90 class As left.  there definitely is IPv4 address
	shortage.

itojun

---

From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 10:07:23 -0800

> networks in hotels, or in public events (like IST2002 where I am now),

sounds more like a routing problem

randy

---

From: Keith Moore <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 20:41:12 -0500

> sounds more like a routing problem

indeed, if we could figure out a way to allow everyone to advertise /32s, 
and to allocate them without significant wastage or administrative overhead, 
and to provide DNS lookups for them, the sheer # of addresses in IPv4 
would not be quite so much of a limitation.

---

From: Mark Smith <[email-masked]>
Date: 06 Nov 2002 18:41:08 +1100

> 	and there are only 90 class As left.  there definitely is IPv4 address

ADSL is really starting to take of here in Australia, and almost
everybody is buying routers to connect up multiple PCs. Unfortunately
ISPs are only giving out one address, semi-permanently, so NAT has to be
used.

Its got to the point where the price difference between an basic ADSL
Modem/Bridge and a ADSL Router with NAT and a four port 10/100 Mbps
switch is about $50 US.

Sad really.