Subject: [ogpx] the term 'grid'

From: Dave CROCKER <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 23:26:10 +0200

Folks,

A comment from a colleague, this evening, prompted me to do some searching, 
onlyu to discover that the word 'grid' is part of the "cloud computing" world, 
apparently with both some precise meaning and some pervasive misunderstanding:

    <http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/web/library/wa-cloudgrid/>

Since the OGPX work really has nothing to do with cloud computing and is an 
entirely domain of discourse, it could be confusing to use a term that is 
already entrenched in this neighboring discipline.

Not sure what alternative to suggest, but though it worth raising a flag about 
the word 'grid'.

d/
-- 

   Dave Crocker
   Brandenburg InternetWorking
   bbiw.net

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From: Ann Otoole <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 14:37:39 -0700 (PDT)

Planet? System? Galaxy? Universe? Dimension?

I look at each grid as a planet.

I took the Second Life Grid and put it on a planet for a picture: http://www.annotoole.com/mylittleworld.png

If each "grid" were a planet and similar planets that had trusted interop were "planetary systems" then non interoperable "planetary systems" (in of themselves interoperable  would be in separate "galaxies".

Another "dimension" would be a very interesting concept indeed.

That is how I see it anyway.

________________________________
From: Dave CROCKER <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 5:26:10 PM
Subject: [ogpx] the term 'grid'

Folks,

A comment from a colleague, this evening, prompted me to do some searching, onlyu to discover that the word 'grid' is part of the "cloud computing" world, apparently with both some precise meaning and some pervasive misunderstanding:

Since the OGPX work really has nothing to do with cloud computing and is an entirely domain of discourse, it could be confusing to use a term that is already entrenched in this neighboring discipline.

Not sure what alternative to suggest, but though it worth raising a flag about the word 'grid'.

d/
-- 
  Dave Crocker
  Brandenburg InternetWorking
  bbiw.net
_______________________________________________
ogpx mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ogpx

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From: Carlo Wood <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 00:43:16 +0200

Parcel
Sim / Region
Land / Continent / Island
World (grid) (/ Solar system)
Galaxy (OGP connected Worlds)

When not TP is possible, it would be a different Galaxy.

I'm in favour of changing the name World --> Galaxy,
and grid --> World.

That would also take away concerns raised about the phrase
in the draft "One world", since "One galaxy" implies a lot
less that each World has the same rules (ToS).

-- 
Carlo Wood <[email-masked]>

---

From: Infinity Linden <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 07:02:55 +0200

thanks for bringing this up, dave.

the IBM developer support article you reference and other references
indicate that grid computing is "a form of distributed computing ...
composed of a cluster of networked loosely coupled computers acting in
concert to perform very large tasks." (i found that definition at the
wikipedia and another IBM developer facing document)

virtual worlds used for interoperability testing between Second Life
and OpenSimulator were implemented by.. "a cluster of networked,
loosely coupled computers acting in concert to perform a large task"
(that large task is the simulation of the virtual world.)

So the "grid" in Open Grid Protocol is accurate; it is a protocol
intended to be deployed on a grid.

confusing matters further, Oracle's developer support organization
defines "grid computing" to be largely similar to what IBM developer
support calls "cloud computing."

Krauter and Maheswaran in the proceedings of the 1st IEEE/ACM
International Workshop on Grid Compuing  defines "grid computing"
as... "a grid is a computing and data handling virtual system formed
by aggregating the diverse services provided by diverse resources to
synthesize problem solving environments." (
http://www.gridcomputing.org/grid2000/book/19710064.ps )

i'm not sure this rises to the definition of a "precise meaning."
instead, it seems like there is general agreement that "grid
computing" involves a loosely coupled collection of distributed hosts
working together on the same or related problems. this is a good
definition of the architecture we explicitly support with OGP.

also... historically... the term "grid" has been used among the OGP
interoperability investigators to define the collection of distributed
systems which implement the virtual world under simulation.

On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Dave CROCKER<[email-masked]> wrote:
> onlyu to discover that the word 'grid' is part of the "cloud computing"
> world, apparently with both some precise meaning and some pervasive
> misunderstanding:
>

---

From: Dave CROCKER <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 09:42:06 +0200

> intended to be deployed on a grid.

Yes and no.  It is a particular instance of the construct.  Except that the term
is really tied to an implementation model, whereas OGPX is quite explicitly not.
  So while it probably really is a legitimate instance, there is a plausible
argument that it isn't.

Fundamentally, cloud computing is remote shared service hosting.  A
long-standing, low-level service that comes into vogue every 15 years or so.
This is vastly different than the semantics of "virtual worlds".

That is, the term is tied to details that seem not to apply here.  The question
is whether it might cause confusion in folks in the general Internet technical
community.

I tend to be in favor of labels that work hard to be correctly meaningful and
relevant to outsiders and to avoid confusion. It is usually a challenge to get
the right balance.  I initially thought that the choice of 'grid' was quite
quite a good choice, until coming across its use in the cloud world.

There is a tendency to use labels that are refer to a  mechanical point at too
low a level or to be too general.  The fact that the cloud world not only uses
'grid' but apparently has some confusion about its use is what prompted me to
raise the flag.

> systems which implement the virtual world under simulation.

Exactly the issue:  It invokes implementation rather than semantic concepts.

In looking at the the postings offering alternative suggestions, I was drawn to
'Region' since it is a core term already in the existing documents, and it
refers to the entity/location that instantiates a world itself.  The word
"Region" does not have any substantial history in this realm of computing or
networking; so collisions and confusion won't happen.

If I am understanding the existing documents and the goal of the current effort,
it is targeting access to regions.  Region Access Protocol (RAP) seems like a
plausible choice.  No doubt there are others.

d/
-- 

   Dave Crocker