Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] comments on draft-gu-opsawg-policies-migration. // OPSAWG Digest, Vol 50, Issue 53

From: "Yingjie Gu(yingjie)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 11:28:25 +0800

Hi Chen Nan,

You are right. 

I am not an expert in Storage Area Network, but I learned basic knowledge of
SAN following Yanjie’s suggestion.  I find that there are also policies on
FC switches, e.g the VSAN(alike VLAN) and ZONE (alike ACL). These are static
policies. I am not sure whether there are also dynamic information generated
on FC switches. 

I CCed the previous email to STORM(Storage maintenance) but was rejected,
because it’s not in scope. L

And I think the cooperation between front-end network and back-end storage
network will be very complicate and not easy at all. I think we need to give
more considerations on this and be very careful for whether to involve this
into the scope of the draft. 

I hope we can get more experts in FC/FCoE area to be involved in this
discussion.

Do you know any of them?

BTW, I revise the title of the email to comments on draft-……, so that
people can know the target of the comments. 

Thank you very much.

  _____  

Best Regards
Gu Yingjie

发件人: 陈楠 [mailto:[email-masked]] 
发送时间: 2011年7月12日 乐乐22:47
收件人: guyingjie
抄送: opsawg
主题: Re: OPSAWG Digest, Vol 50, Issue 53

hi，Gu Yingjie

VM（virtual machine ）live migration is one of the key factors in IaaS
model, I am so happy to hear that you guys are also intresting in this area.
Unfortunately, the solutions of live migration are constrained by the
network and stroage conditions, which means that the migration must be
excuted in a LAN and all the host are shared a SAN. So it is very necessary
to start the work to insure the VM migration could be work  through the WAN
& separated SAN conditions. I think the research on the scenarios of
migration is a good beginning.

Follow  Yan jie's suggestions, I think he means the migration within a
single site, in asymmetric architecture or between DC sites all should
consider the stroage conditions to make sure the migration could be excuted,
also the cooperation between front-end network and back-end storage network
should also be considered.    

2011-07-12 

  _____  

David CHAN 

  _____  

发件人： opsawg-request 

发送时间： 2011-07-12  20:43:11 

收件人： opsawg 

抄送： 

主题： OPSAWG Digest, Vol 50, Issue 53 

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re:  Comments on

      draft-gu-opsawg-policies-migration-solution-survey-00

      (Yingjie Gu(yingjie))

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1

Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 20:45:25 +0800

From: "Yingjie Gu(yingjie)" <[email-masked]>

To: 'yanjie_air' <[email-masked]>, 'opsawg' <[email-masked]>

Cc: [email-masked]

Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Comments on

draft-gu-opsawg-policies-migration-solution-survey-00

Message-ID: <008801cc4091$92b4a690$b81df3b0$@com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312"

Hi Yanjie,

Thank you for your support and suggestions.

I am not sure whether we should also consider storage policy migration when

storage is not shared. But this is an interesting topic, and I think we may

invite expert in STORM into discussion. 

To let experts in STORM has basic knowledge of the problem, I would briefly

introduce the background.

A single physical server in Data Center is virtualized into multiple virtual

machines to take full advantage of physical resources. The virtual machines

are allowed to migrate to other location in the same data center, or even to

another data center, and the running services on Virtual machine should not

be disrupted. In addition to memory and software resources on server

migrating with Virtual machine, network policies also need to migrate. The

policies could be static policies configured on network devices, and it also

includes the dynamic state learned by network devices. For example, TCP

states on Firewall and Address mapping on NAT. Please refer to the drafts

for more examples of the policies. Without the migration of policies,

running services could be disrupted.

Now Yanjie suggest us to also consider policies migration in storage

network, when the source location and destination location of VM doesn?t

use shared storage. 

Any comments and questions are welcome. 

  _____  

Best Regards

Gu Yingjie

???: yanjie_air [mailto:[email-masked]] 

????: 2011?7?11? ??22:29

???: opsawg

??: guyingjie

??: Comments on draft-gu-opsawg-policies-migration-solution-survey-00

HI,Gu

     Policy migration in the virulization environment is a very interesting

and important topic. I think this draft focuses on the network policy

migration. And I suggest that we could consider the storage policy migration

too. When the source devices and destination devices do not share storage,

there should be a storage data migration such as vmware's storage vmotion

before VMs migration.

Best Regards

Yan jie

2011-07-11 

  _____  

yanjie_air 

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---

From: Michael Ko <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 17:47:58 -0700

If the storage is shared (as in a SAN), after the VM is migrated, then the new VM acting as initiators can establish new connection to the storage target (assuming the new VM has been provisioned by the storage administrator to have the same access authority).  In this case access to data will not be disrupted.  However, if the VM is to be migrated  to a datacenter at a different site, as discussed in sec. 4.3, then the other datacenter must maintain an up to date (down to the millisecond) copy of the data; otherwise the VM would have to return to the original datacenter to access the data.  This means that gateways will likely be needed for the data to be accessible from outside the SAN in the datacenter.  This will have an impact on throughput and performance.  (Think about the case of replacing hard drives with SSDs to get the extra performance.  Here we are talking about adding extra network latency to slow down the data.)

Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Yingjie Gu(yingjie) 
  To: [email-masked] 
  Cc: 'opsawg' 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 8:28 PM
  Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] comments on draft-gu-opsawg-policies-migration. // OPSAWG Digest, Vol 50, Issue 53

  Hi Chen Nan,

  You are right. 

  I am not an expert in Storage Area Network, but I learned basic knowledge of SAN following Yanjie’s suggestion.  I find that there are also policies on FC switches, e.g the VSAN(alike VLAN) and ZONE (alike ACL). These are static policies. I am not sure whether there are also dynamic information generated on FC switches. 

  I CCed the previous email to STORM(Storage maintenance) but was rejected, because it’s not in scope. L

  And I think the cooperation between front-end network and back-end storage network will be very complicate and not easy at all. I think we need to give more considerations on this and be very careful for whether to involve this into the scope of the draft. 

  I hope we can get more experts in FC/FCoE area to be involved in this discussion.

  Do you know any of them?

  BTW, I revise the title of the email to comments on draft-……, so that people can know the target of the comments. 

  Thank you very much.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  Best Regards
  Gu Yingjie

  hi，Gu Yingjie

  VM（virtual machine ）live migration is one of the key factors in IaaS model, I am so happy to hear that you guys are also intresting in this area.   Unfortunately, the solutions of live migration are constrained by the network and stroage conditions, which means that the migration must be excuted in a LAN and all the host are shared a SAN. So it is very necessary to start the work to insure the VM migration could be work  through the WAN & separated SAN conditions. I think the research on the scenarios of migration is a good beginning.

  Follow  Yan jie's suggestions, I think he means the migration within a single site, in asymmetric architecture or between DC sites all should consider the stroage conditions to make sure the migration could be excuted, also the cooperation between front-end network and back-end storage network should also be considered.    

  2011-07-12 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  David CHAN 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  发件人： opsawg-request 

  收件人： opsawg 

  抄送： 

  [email-masked]

  [email-masked]

  [email-masked]

  Today's Topics:

     1. Re:  Comments on

        (Yingjie Gu(yingjie))

  Message: 1

  Cc: [email-masked]

  Hi Yanjie,

  use shared storage. 

    _____  

  Best Regards

  Gu Yingjie

  ????: 2011?7?11? ??22:29

  ???: opsawg

  ??: guyingjie

  HI,Gu

  before VMs migration.

  Best Regards

  Yan jie

  2011-07-11 

    _____  

  yanjie_air 

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From: "Yingjie Gu(yingjie)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 13:18:50 +0800

Hi Michael,

Thank you for your  comments.

So a reasonable scenario is that we migrate VMs between data centers, who
are on the same campus, that is they are not far away. They might still
share the same storage. 

If storage is not shared, it’s not what we can solve in this draft. What we
can do is to assume that there is a way to migrate storage as VM, and then
there is policies need to be migrated with storage. 

In order not to make the problem too confusing, I suggest we not consider
storage policies migration for now.

  _____  

Best Regards
Gu Yingjie

发件人: Michael Ko [mailto:[email-masked]] 
发送时间: 2011年7月14日 乐乐8:48
收件人: Yingjie Gu(yingjie); [email-masked]
抄送: 'opsawg'
主题: Re: [OPSAWG] comments on draft-gu-opsawg-policies-migration. // OPSAWG
Digest, Vol 50, Issue 53

If the storage is shared (as in a SAN), after the VM is migrated, then the
new VM acting as initiators can establish new connection to the storage
target (assuming the new VM has been provisioned by the storage
administrator to have the same access authority).  In this case access to
data will not be disrupted.  However, if the VM is to be migrated  to a
datacenter at a different site, as discussed in sec. 4.3, then the other
datacenter must maintain an up to date (down to the millisecond) copy of the
data; otherwise the VM would have to return to the original datacenter to
access the data.  This means that gateways will likely be needed for the
data to be accessible from outside the SAN in the datacenter.  This will
have an impact on throughput and performance.  (Think about the case of
replacing hard drives with SSDs to get the extra performance.  Here we are
talking about adding extra network latency to slow down the data.)

Mike

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Yingjie Gu(yingjie) <mailto:[email-masked]>  

To: [email-masked] 

Cc: 'opsawg' <mailto:[email-masked]>  

Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] comments on draft-gu-opsawg-policies-migration. //
OPSAWG Digest, Vol 50, Issue 53

Hi Chen Nan,

You are right. 

Do you know any of them?

Thank you very much.

  _____  

Best Regards
Gu Yingjie

hi，Gu Yingjie

2011-07-12 

  _____  

  

David CHAN 

  _____  

发件人： opsawg-request 

收件人： opsawg 

抄送： 

[email-masked]

[email-masked]

[email-masked]

Today's Topics:

   1. Re:  Comments on

      (Yingjie Gu(yingjie))

Message: 1

Cc: [email-masked]

Hi Yanjie,

use shared storage. 

  _____  

Best Regards

Gu Yingjie

????: 2011?7?11? ??22:29

???: opsawg

??: guyingjie

HI,Gu

before VMs migration.

Best Regards

Yan jie

2011-07-11 

  _____  

yanjie_air 

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