Subject: [p2p-sip] P2P and 911 (again)

From: Richard.Stastny at oefeg.at (Stastny Richard)
Date: Wed Aug 17 18:07:43 2005

Juha,
 
you are at the point. Emergency services in future requires the
provision of location information to the end-users device by the 
access providers as an obligation. there will be no obligations
anymore to the application service providers, because in this case
the device may access the PSAP directly.
 
A gsm/3g provider is nothing else than just an access provider
like a DSL or cable provider, a WiFi hot spot or WiMAX.
This message has to be conveyed to the regulators, especially
in Europe.
 
so the whole discussion if p2p provider have to provide access
to emergency services is needless, they will not be they one 
haveing obligations
 
-richard

________________________________

Von: [email-masked] im Auftrag von Juha Heinanen
Gesendet: Mi 17.08.2005 15:37
An: Tschofenig, Hannes
Cc: [email-masked]
Betreff: [p2p-sip] P2P and 911 (again)

Tschofenig, Hannes writes:

 > 1) the end host is able to use a mapping protocol to locate the psap.
 > the uri of the psap is determined based on the location of the end
 > host.

if p2p sip client is in gsm/3g device, it could calculate its own
location provided that it knows coordinates of available gsm/3g base
stations.

i once suggested to authorities in finland that every mobile operator is
mandated to publish coordinates of their base stations on the internet.
this was rejected due to desire of mobile operators to hide such
information.

this is yet another example of the walled garden philosophy of mobile
operators.  they don't want to give control to intelligent p2p end
devices.

perhaps fcc in the u.s., if, as they claim, take emergency calling
seriously, could publish such ruling as an example to european
regulators.  if not, the only conclusion one can make, is that all this
fuzz about emergency calling is nothing but joke and in the end the only
thing that really matters is commercial interests of walled garden
operators.

-- juha
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---

From: kumarb at research.panasonic.com (Brijesh Kumar)
Date: Thu Aug 18 10:14:08 2005

Hi Guys:

Isn't all discussion very assumptive as to what P2P SIP
should be used?

Yes -  for some people E911 may be a required service, but it
is n't clear why they would like to use P2P SIP for it rather than using
standard SIP. After all providing any kind of service guarantee with
P2P is nearly impossible unless provider controls all the peer nodes which
form the overlay, and their performance. Moreover,  you have issues
of  trust between peers and all related problems of security in a pure
p2p environment. Given that all future mobile devices are likely to have
GPS location or some other means of getting their own location (i.e., BTS
triangulations), I see psap and location mapping more of logistic
issue than a technology issue. Any decent DHT implementation can store any
kind of  data, replicate it  so that you can get it any time you search for
it.

Having said this, I have no idea why some people are thinking P2P SIP
has to replace SIP. I can see many applications and environment that
do not require E911, and have nothing to do with any kind of provider
(including "p2p" provider  - whoever it means).

All I want to do is use P2P SIP  between my hand-held devices in a PAN
with no need of any additional baggage of any kind (like E911, legal
interception and whatever else "dangerous stuff" is there  ...)

cheers,

--bk

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stastny Richard" <[email-masked]>
To: "Juha Heinanen" <[email-masked]>; "Tschofenig, Hannes"
<[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: [p2p-sip] P2P and 911 (again)

Juha,

-richard

-- juha