Subject: [p2p-sip] Version -03 of Concepts draft submitted

From: philip_matthews at magma.ca (Philip Matthews)
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 15:59:24 -0400

Folks:

I have just submitted a new version of the P2PSIP Concepts draft.
Until it is available in the official archives, you can pick up a  
copy at
	www.magma.ca/~philip_matthews

I am sure that David will also post a copy to his www.p2psip.org  
website shortly.

Major changes from the -02 version:
- Removed most of the alternate forms for terms.
   (A few are still called out in the text of the definition).
- Split the concept of a P2PSIP Bootstrap Server and P2PSIP Bootstrap  
Peer,
   and rewrote the sections on bootstrapping to split these two  
concepts.
- Noted that the names for many of the concepts are still under debate
   (e.,g., P2PSIP Client and P2PSIP Peer Insertion)
- Noted that there is still a debate over the difference, if any,  
between user and resource.
   (The text in the document itself is somewhat inconsistent on this  
point).
- Added a new section that discusses the Client and Peer Protocols  
and their differences.
- Removed references to the "Send" operation, and added a note that  
the examples
   do not currently address the problem of sending to a peer or  
client behind a NAT.
- Added a section on NAT Traversal to the Questions section
- Added some text to make it clear that a client is strictly more  
limited than a peer,
   and that you can have a P2PSIP Overlay of just peers, but not one  
of just clients.

I also made lots of other minor changes based on comments received.
I have noted most of these in e-mails sent to the list in the past 4  
days.

- Philip

---

From: jiang.x.f at huawei.com (JiangXingFeng)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 17:09:37 +0800

Hi, Philip:
   I have read the version-3 of Concepts draft. A comment is prsented as
follows:
In definition of P2PSIP peer, there is a statement :"Each P2PSIP Peer may or
may not be coupled to one or more P2PSIP User Agents". In my opinion,
P2PSIP Peer may be coupled to various SIP entities, such as proxy server,
redirect server, not only SIP User Agent. 
   In Reference modle in this draft,  proxy peer p and redirect peer r is
coupled with the peer and has proxy or redirect functions. From the
definition of P2PSIP User Agents, I think P2PSIP User Agents is a
counterpart of SIP User Agents, which have no proxy and redirect functions.
  We can descibe the function of a peer by using the following diagram.
There may be two statcks equiped in the P2PSIP Peer. One is SIP-related, and
the other is P2P-related.  In SIP protocol, different core (transcation
user) which a SIP entity has decide the role of this entity. If it is
equipped with proxy core, it acts as a proxy. From P2P perspective, the peer
runs P2P Peer protocol.
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |  Transaction User   |                     |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+                     |
   |  Treanscation       |     Peer Protocol    |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+                     | 
   |  Transport          |                     |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |                  TCP/IP                  |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
So my suggestion is to modify this statement to: "Each P2PSIP Peer may or
may not be coupled to one or more P2PSIP User Agents, it may also be coupled
to one SIP entities such as proxy server, redirect server, other than SIP
User Agent". 

The definition of P2P Client has the same problem.

Jiang XingFeng
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----Original Message-----
> From: p2p-sip-bounces at cs.columbia.edu
> [mailto:p2p-sip-bounces at cs.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of Philip Matthews
> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 3:59 AM
> To: P2P-SIP
> Cc: David A. Bryan
> Subject: [p2p-sip] Version -03 of Concepts draft submitted
> 
> Folks:
> 
> _______________________________________________
> p2p-sip mailing list
> p2p-sip at cs.columbia.edu
> https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/cucslists/listinfo/p2p-sip

---

From: philip_matthews at magma.ca (Philip Matthews)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 09:41:31 -0500

> equipped with proxy core, it acts as a proxy. From P2P perspective,  

Thanks for your comment.
In my opinion, this is an area where the concepts in the draft could  
be improved.

What I think you are saying is that there is a "peer function" and  
that this can
be optionally combined with one or more "SIP functions" (such as a  
SIP UA,
SIP Redirect server, SIP Proxy server, etc).

If so, then I agree with this statement.
(However, I don't know what my co-authors think about this! ;-).

We will see if we cannot improve this aspect of the draft in the next  
version.

- Philip

---

From: dean.willis at softarmor.com (Dean Willis)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 11:23:39 -0600

> We will see if we cannot improve this aspect of the draft in the next

I'd go so far as to say we could couple either a P2PSIP "peer  
function" or a P2PSIP "client function" with one or more SIP  
functions (UA, proxy, redirector, registrar, SBC, whatever).

If you couple a P2PSIP peer or client with a SIP UA, you might get a  
"phone".

If you couple a P2PSIP peer or client to a SIP proxy and a SIP  
registrar, you might get a SIP to P2PSIP adaptation server that would  
look like a "home proxy" to a SIP UA.

If you couple a P2PSIP peer or client to a SIP SBC, you might get a  
SIP SBC with a P2PSIP backend.

--
Dean

---

From: eunsoo at research.panasonic.com (Eunsoo Shim)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 10:57:09 -0500

You are right. Actually this was pointed out at the conference call a
couple of weeks ago and agreed to be fixed as you suggested (using a
similar expression). I guess somehow the fix was missed. :-(
Thanks.

Eunsoo

---

From: eunsoo at research.panasonic.com (Eunsoo Shim)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 16:02:13 -0500

Dean Willis wrote:

>-
Wow, this is a good illustration. I like it.
Thanks.

Eunsoo

---

From: swb at employees.org (Scott W Brim)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 22:43:21 +0100

> SIP SBC with a P2PSIP backend.

Would the P2PSIP component need to have any idea what was using it?

---

From: eunsoo at research.panasonic.com (Eunsoo Shim)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 18:09:40 -0500

>Would the P2PSIP component need to have any idea what was using it?
I guess you mean P2PSIP Peer and Client by 'P2PSIP component'.
Then my answer is 'NO'.
No matter what is using it, the P2PSIP Peer or Client module/component
will provide the same functionality.
Thanks.

Eunsoo

---

From: jiang.x.f at huawei.com (JiangXingFeng)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 09:41:49 +0800

I agree with Eunsoo. Whether Peer functions or Client functions in P2PSIP is
to provide a method to store and lookup information in the P2PSIP Overlay.
Peer functions or client functions are exercised by SIP entities, including
SIP User Agent, Proxy server, Redirect Server. A Peer need not to know which
SIP functions coexist with the Peer functions. So does a client. The Peer
functions or Client functions is independent of the SIP functions which a
peer or a client has.

Best regards
JiangXingFeng

Eunsoo wrote:
> [mailto:p2p-sip-bounces at cs.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of Eunsoo Shim
> Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 7:10 AM
> To: Scott W Brim
> Cc: 'P2P-SIP'
> Subject: Re: [p2p-sip] Version -03 of Concepts draft submitted
> 
> Scott W Brim wrote:
>

---

From: spencer at mcsr-labs.org (Spencer Dawkins)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 23:48:05 -0600

Hi, Scott,

> will provide the same functionality.

I understood the possible "using" relationships to include whether a P2PSIP 
Peer can tell if it is being used by another P2PSIP Peer, or by a P2PSIP 
Client.

Is that part of the question?

Thanks,

Spencer

---

From: dean.willis at softarmor.com (Dean Willis)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 01:13:06 -0600

> Would the P2PSIP component need to have any idea what was using it?

Nope.

--
Dean