Subject: [ppsp] Updated charter proposal

From: Gonzalo Camarillo <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 12:42:30 +0200

Hi Yunfei,

there have been interesting discussions about the charter. Could you 
please send an updated version of the charter including all new changes 
so that we can have a look at it? Once you post the updated charter, we 
can gather comments for, say, a week before sending it to Lars.

Thanks,

Gonzalo

---

From: "zhangyunfei" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 09:40:29 +0800

Yes,Gonzalo.Thanks for your reminding.I am collecting all the suggestions to update a new version of the charter.Hope to finish and post it within a few days.

BR
Yunfei

zhangyunfei
2010-01-15

发件人： Gonzalo Camarillo
发送时间： 2010-01-14 18:54:06
收件人： zhangyunfei
抄送： [email-masked]
主题： Updated charter proposal

Hi  Yunfei,

Thanks,

Gonzalo

---

From: "Y.J. Gu" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 12:02:55 +0800

Hi Yunfei,
I have some comments on charter.
1.  What kind of systems does ' P2P streaming systems' include? Does it
include all of Live streaming, VoD and TSTV? I suggest we specify the
indication. Currently, the description in the charter is too general.
 
2.  Should Tracker Protocol and Peer Protocol possibly be designed as a
single one? I remember that someone make this suggestion already.
 
3.  Based on Alberto's proposal-  Tracker  protocol  peer  list  -- >
deputy peer list : list of peers provided by the tracker. This list can be
generated randomly or refined by means of ALTO servers / service. This list
is provided from the tracker to new incoming peers (new peers joining a
streaming channel and do not know any peer in the overlay).
     First thing is that I don't think ALTO is the only means that can be
utilized to refine a peer list. So I think an 'e.g. ALTO ' maybe better.
     Another is the definition of the deputy list. Tracker could send deputy
list to a new peer who joins a channel for the first time and knows nothing
about peer list. It  could also send deputy list to an 'old' peer who
request for a chunk in a VoD streaming. The old peer knows some peers in the
overlay but still needs to request candidate peers from Tracker for some
reasons, e.g. no chunk is stored on these local peers. 
    So I suggest to remove this sentence:
 
 Tracker  protocol  peer  list  -- >  deputy peer list : list of peers
provided by the tracker. This list can be generated randomly or refined by
some means, e.g. ALTO service. 
 
4.  -  Peer  protocol  peer  list  -- >  member peer list : list of peers
exchanged among peers which belong to a common streaming channel. This list
includes locally known peers (which belong to the same overlay).

      To me, channel means a live streaming channel or a TSTV channel, not
including such streaming as VoD. So I doubt that " a common streaming
channel" is a little misleadding. So I suggest to modify the definition as
following.
 
    -  Peer  protocol  peer  list  -- >  member peer list : list of peers
exchanged among peers which belong to a common streaming. This list includes
locally known peers (which belong to the same overlay).
 
5.  the last sentence in para 2 saids "PPSP peers inform their status
information to PPSP trackers, exchange their chunk availability with other
PPSP peers and/or PPSP trackers , and ask other PPSP peers for wanted data.
"
Exchange means that you give me this and I give you that. So it's true that
peers exchange chunk avlailability. However, peers do not exchange that with
Tracker, peers just inform Tracker their chunk availabilility, and Tracker
give peerlist for their request. So I think this sentence should be modified
as "PPSP peers inform their status information and chunk availability to
PPSP trackers, exchange their chunk availability with other PPSP peers, and
ask other PPSP peers for wanted data."
 
6.  Primary Task 4: peer protocol is also used to exchange peer list and
some other peer property, e.g. bandwidth, busy or not, connections, etc. So
I suggest to modify as "4. A proposed standard defining the PPSP peer
protocol. This protocol will define how PPSP peers exchange peer list and
advertise chunk availability. The protocol will also define the requests and
responses of chunks and peer property among PPSP peers. "

Regards

Yingjie Gu

  _____  

From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of
zhangyunfei
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:40 AM
To: Gonzalo Camarillo
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [ppsp] Updated charter proposal

Yes,Gonzalo.Thanks for your reminding.I am collecting all the suggestions to
update a new version of the charter.Hope to finish and post it within a few
days.
 
BR
Yunfei

  _____  

zhangyunfei
2010-01-15

  _____  

发件人： Gonzalo Camarillo

Hi  Yunfei,
 
there  have  been  interesting  discussions  about  the  charter.  Could
you  
please  send  an  updated  version  of  the  charter  including  all  new
changes  
so  that  we  can  have  a  look  at  it?  Once  you  post  the  updated
charter,  we  
can  gather  comments  for,  say,  a  week  before  sending  it  to  Lars.
 
Thanks,
 
Gonzalo

---

From: "zhangyunfei" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 11:41:31 +0800

Hi Yingjie,
    Thanks for the suggestions.Sorry for the late reply.I just pull myself out of one week meeting.Please see comments inline.

BR
Yunfei 

zhangyunfei
2010-01-21

发件人： Y.J. Gu
发送时间： 2010-01-15 12:14:21
收件人： 'zhangyunfei'; 'Gonzalo Camarillo'
抄送： [email-masked]
主题： RE: [ppsp] Updated charter proposal

Hi Yunfei,
I have some comments on charter.
1.  What kind of systems does ' P2P streaming systems' include? Does it include all of Live streaming, VoD and TSTV? I suggest we specify the indication. Currently, the description in the charter is too general.
The new charter indicates the types.

3.  Based on Alberto's proposal-  Tracker  protocol  peer  list  -- >  deputy peer list : list of peers provided by the tracker. This list can be generated randomly or refined by means of ALTO servers / service. This list is provided from the tracker to new incoming peers (new peers joining a streaming channel and do not know any peer in the overlay).
     First thing is that I don't think ALTO is the only means that can be utilized to refine a peer list. So I think an 'e.g. ALTO ' maybe better.
     Another is the definition of the deputy list. Tracker could send deputy list to a new peer who joins a channel for the first time and knows nothing about peer list. It  could also send deputy list to an 'old' peer who request for a chunk in a VoD streaming. The old peer knows some peers in the overlay but still needs to request candidate peers from Tracker for some reasons, e.g. no chunk is stored on these local peers. 
    So I suggest to remove this sentence:

 Tracker  protocol  peer  list  -- >  deputy peer list : list of peers provided by the tracker. This list can be generated randomly or refined by some means, e.g. ALTO service. 

4.  -  Peer  protocol  peer  list  -- >  member peer list : list of peers exchanged among peers which belong to a common streaming channel. This list includes locally known peers (which belong to the same overlay).

      To me, channel means a live streaming channel or a TSTV channel, not including such streaming as VoD. So I doubt that " a common streaming channel" is a little misleadding. So I suggest to modify the definition as following.

    -  Peer  protocol  peer  list  -- >  member peer list : list of peers exchanged among peers which belong to a common streaming. This list includes locally known peers (which belong to the same overlay).

I agree with your points in the change.However I have the same impression with Christian, i.e., the definition in the charter should not be too detailed.I suggest to add these in the PS draft.
5.  the last sentence in para 2 saids "PPSP peers inform their status information to PPSP trackers, exchange their chunk availability with other PPSP peers and/or PPSP trackers , and ask other PPSP peers for wanted data. "
Exchange means that you give me this and I give you that. So it's true that peers exchange chunk avlailability. However, peers do not exchange that with Tracker, peers just inform Tracker their chunk availabilility, and Tracker give peerlist for their request. So I think this sentence should be modified as "PPSP peers inform their status information and chunk availability to PPSP trackers, exchange their chunk availability with other PPSP peers, and ask other PPSP peers for wanted data."
I doubt that you are seeing the old version.Please see the new version for the detail.

6.  Primary Task 4: peer protocol is also used to exchange peer list and some other peer property, e.g. bandwidth, busy or not, connections, etc. So I suggest to modify as "4. A proposed standard defining the PPSP peer protocol. This protocol will define how PPSP peers exchange peer list and advertise chunk availability. The protocol will also define the requests and responses of chunks and peer property among PPSP peers. "

Good!Updated.

Regards
Yingjie Gu

From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of zhangyunfei
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 9:40 AM
To: Gonzalo Camarillo
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [ppsp] Updated charter proposal

BR
Yunfei

zhangyunfei
2010-01-15

发件人： Gonzalo Camarillo

Hi  Yunfei,

Thanks,

Gonzalo