Subject: Friendly suggestion on late MASQUE cross pollination addition to today's agenda

From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2020 08:10:58 -0500

Dear QUIC Chairs,

I see that
https://github.com/quicwg/wg-materials/blob/master/interim-20-10/agenda.md
now has "MASQUE cross pollination (10 min)".

Thank you for adding that to the agenda (it was a surprise to me, but a
pleasant surprise).

Having said that, I note that at least some of the 3GPP ATSSS proposals in
SA2 (which is also meeting this week) are planning to rely on MASQUE.

It would be helpful if the QUIC chairs asked for people with other
multipath proposals are also planning to rely on MASQUE (I'm sure some do,
but don't know everyone who does).

It would be helpful if SOMEONE -whether the QUIC chairs, since this is a
QUIC meeting and has the presentation on the agenda, or the MASQUE chairs,
since this is a MASQUE topic - could send a pointer to this presentation,
minutes, etc. to 3GPP SA2, before the November IETF and SA2 meetings.

I can send that as an individual, of course, but incoming formal liaisons
get 3GPP attention for meeting agendas.

I'm happy to help in any way, of course.

Best,

Spencer

---

From: Lars Eggert <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2020 17:05:55 +0300

Hi,

On 2020-10-22, at 16:10, Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]> wrote:
> I see that https://github.com/quicwg/wg-materials/blob/master/interim-20-10/agenda.md now has "MASQUE cross pollination (10 min)".
> 
> Thank you for adding that to the agenda (it was a surprise to me, but a pleasant surprise).

sorry for the surprise - Lucas and I talked, and since several of the use cases appear to reply on using QUIC to provide tunnels in some form (as you noted), we thought it would be useful to summarize what MASQUE offers.

> It would be helpful if SOMEONE -whether the QUIC chairs, since this is a QUIC meeting and has the presentation on the agenda, or the MASQUE chairs, since this is a MASQUE topic - could send a pointer to this presentation, minutes, etc. to 3GPP SA2, before the November IETF and SA2 meetings.

I want to push back on this - I don't want to get into a mode where we extend liaison statements for the sole purpose of notifying the other side that we had a meeting and that there are meeting materials. I would assume that if someone is intending on using QUIC (and/or MASQUE) in some form, they would follow the work at least to a degree where they know when meetings happen.

Thanks,
Lars

---

From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2020 09:19:23 -0500

Hi, Lars,

On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 9:06 AM Lars Eggert <[email-masked]> wrote:

> sorry for the surprise - Lucas and I talked, and since several of the use
> cases appear to reply on using QUIC to provide tunnels in some form (as you
> noted), we thought it would be useful to summarize what MASQUE offers.
>

Oh, it was a pleasant surprise! I haven't been following MASQUE as closely
as some other things, but haven't seen discussion of the MASQUE charter
item "Impacts on address migration, NAT rebinding, and future multipath
mechanisms of QUIC are not anticipated. However, the working group should
document these impacts, or those of any other QUIC developments, if they
arise" yet, and I'm sure that's because QUIC hasn't been working on
multipath mechanisms because we were finishing QUICv1.

> I want to push back on this - I don't want to get into a mode where we
> extend liaison statements for the sole purpose of notifying the other side
> that we had a meeting and that there are meeting materials. I would assume
> that if someone is intending on using QUIC (and/or MASQUE) in some form,
> they would follow the work at least to a degree where they know when
> meetings happen.
>

That's fair, and normally I'd agree, but this agenda item wasn't posted to
the mailing list at all, that I can see, and MASQUE was only added to the
agenda yesterday, according to
https://github.com/quicwg/wg-materials/pull/166. It's not clear to me who
would have been able to know that this agenda item had been added.

As above - I can send the pointers to 3GPP SA2 as an individual participant
in both bodies, but thought the QUIC or MASQUE chairs might want to add
context :-)

Best,

Spencer

---

From: Lucas Pardue <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2020 15:43:47 +0100

Hey Spencer,

> would have been able to know that this agenda item had been added.

The idea to add MASQUE to the agenda comes in response to seeing the slides
and spotting a pattern of folks wanting tunneling. We suspected MASQUE
would have come up during discussion because of this. So to make sure
people had a common platform for understanding we asked for a volunteer to
explain MASQUE at short notice - David kindly volunteered.

There are now a few WGs that have something to do with QUIC. There is a lot
of overlap of attendee populations. I agree with Lars, that folks that have
some interest in QUIC should be tracking the work that is relevant to them.

Cheers
Lucas

---

From: David Schinazi <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2020 07:45:09 -0700

Hi Spencer,

(Speaking as the person presenting MASQUE at the QUIC Multipath interim)
The goal here was solely to give a very brief overview of what MASQUE is
and in what ways it interacts with multipath. Anyone that has been
interested
in MASQUE will most likely not learn much from that 5min talk.

David

On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 7:20 AM Spencer Dawkins at IETF <
[email-masked]> wrote:

>> > It would be helpful if SOMEONE -whether the QUIC chairs, since this is
>> a QUIC meeting and has the presentation on the agenda, or the MASQUE
>> chairs, since this is a MASQUE topic - could send a pointer to this
>> presentation, minutes, etc. to 3GPP SA2, before the November IETF and SA2
>> meetings.
>>
> As above - I can send the pointers to 3GPP SA2 as an individual
> participant in both bodies, but thought the QUIC or MASQUE chairs might
> want to add context :-)
>
> Best,
>
> Spencer
>
>
>> Thanks,
>> Lars
>>
>

---

From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2020 09:51:55 -0500

Hi, David,

> in MASQUE will most likely not learn much from that 5min talk.

I assume the QUIC and MASQUE chairs will Do The Right Thing, of course :-)

Best,

Spencer