Subject: Re: [Raven] Re: Consensus?

From: Vernon Schryver <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 08:41:48 -0700 (MST)

> From: Matthew Saroff <[email-masked]>

> ...
>   "should the IETF develop new protocols or modify existing protocols
>   to support mechanisms whose primary purpose is to support wiretapping
>   or other law enforcement activities"
>
>   and
>
>   "what should the IETF's position be on informational documents that
>   explain how to perform message or data-stream interception without
>   protocol modifications".
>
> 	I would note that this NOTHING to do with Chefrens business of making
> electronic snoops.

Such comments are inappropriate.  There is clearly no rational hope of
business there.  A 2-port E1/T1 chip set kit board is unrelated to products
for serious wire tapping of POTS, cell, or Internet phones.  Besides, the
lack of technical, legal, and political clues about the current phone
system, the Internet, and any possible a large scale voice over IP system
is too complete and permanent.  It's been so much like IPv8 that at first
I honestly wondered if sock puppetry was involved.

For example, the most recent message from that quarter included the
following:

] I'm definitely not talking about Voice over IP, I'm not 
] interested in the data.

If it is unrelated to either voice or data over IP, then the auditable
tcpdump standard has nothing to do with the RMON standard, the BSD UNIX
snooping utility of similar name, or anything else that concerns the IETF.
Since it has nothing to with anything over IP, it has nothing to do with
the IETF.

> 	I would also note that the second question has not been discussed at
> all on the list.  It's essentially aasking if IETF should support an
> instruction manual for intercepts.  Any opinions on this?

An informational or even standards trace RFC on such a subject
would be better than plenty of IETF documents, for any disinterested
definition of "better."  Drafts are nominally future RFC's.  Consider
draft-terrell-ip-spec-ipv7-ipv8-addr-cls-02.txt

Publishing technical information about Internet Protocols is clearly
appropriate.  Whether such an RFC should be title "How To Wiretap IP" or
"Unavoidable Security Holes That Should Be Considered By Those Not Using
Encryption" is a minor editorial issue.

Vernon Schryver    [email-masked]

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