Subject: Re: [Raven] CESA

From: "Richard Payne" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 12:34:18 -0500

ch*fr*n wrote:

>> What I'm presenting to you is a list of three "good-guy"
>> countries where the LEA's do not feel constrained to play by your
personal
>> set of rules. "Bad-guy" countries (i.e. those that don't even pay lip
>> service to civil liberties) are even less constrained.
>
>I agree but there is nothing else we can do about it than
>provide standards for GOOD taps, taps that provide security
>against misuse and unnecessary breaches of privacy.

which is manifestly untrue. We can make efforts to secure our
communications. No taps implies no bad taps.

Richard Payne

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From: "chefren" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 21:49:04 +0100

On 9 Nov 99, at 12:34, Richard Payne wrote:

..

> communications. No taps implies no bad taps.

It's manifestly untrue to think you can prevent a tap.

Democracies have chosen for taps and thus they are set. I 
think its a very strange thought to think you can prevent 
them by for example using encryption.

Taps are a fact and we need good standards for them.

+++chefren

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From: Craig Brozefsky <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 13:06:05 -0800

> them by for example using encryption.

Hmm, the tap itself may not be prevented, but isn't it prevented from
being effective?  How does that differ from stopping the tap?

> Taps are a fact and we need good standards for them.

The kind of people who do taps aren't the kind of people who follow
standards when it doesn't suit them.

-- 
Craig Brozefsky                         <[email-masked]>
Free Scheme/Lisp Software     http://www.red-bean.com/~craig
"riot shields. voodoo economics. its just business. cattle 
 prods and the IMF." - Radiohead, OK Computer, Electioneering