Subject: Re: [Raven] Executive Power / Opinion Toss

From: "Richard Payne" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 08:41:28 -0500

At 7:51 PM on November 30th ch*fr*n wrote a response that managed to avoid
dealing with the two main issues that I raised.

Let's try this again, shall we? I'll make it really brief.

1) Many people are predisposed to disbelieve law enforcement claims for the
reasons that I outlined. I suggested that therefore a strong case is needed
to convince those people of your take on the law enforcement position. You
claim no strong case is required. Why?

2) If it is so dangerous to allow private communication on the Internet, how
do you avoid the conclusion that it's equally dangerous to allow private
communication face-to-face?

By the way, I don't think of myself as a crypto believer, other than to note
that secure communication over insecure networks requires something like
strong crypto. If that's a believer, so be it. Have you read the Dr. Dobbs
articles I suggested yet?

Richard Payne

_______________________________________________
raven mailing list
[email-masked]
http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raven

---

From: "chefren" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 23:57:35 +0100

> dealing with the two main issues that I raised.

Pffffff "managed to avoid dealing with the two mail issues".

> claim no strong case is required. Why?

I didn't say so. I gave a pretty clear and simple example. 
Try again:

Our government has to hire people to do work. If the hired 
people ask for means they should get them or our government 
should hire other people that don't ask for those means.

So law makers have to decide if they give stronger means 
and they simply have to if the required work isn't done.  

> communication face-to-face?

No. Because there is no broadcast effect, no anonymity. 
Simple and very old law enforcement techniques can obtain 
enough information to keep crime low enough.

> strong crypto.

OK, I agree with that. It's also my opinion that crypto is 
certainly necessary and useful in our society.

> If that's a believer, so be it. Have you read the Dr.
> Dobbs articles I suggested yet? 

No sorry,

+++chefren

= =
ii.nl ontwerpt, bouwt én onderhoudt websites
100 Euro aanbrengpremie: http://www.ii.nl/premie