Subject: Re: [re-ECN] Fwd: Pls respond: Do we have a Congestion Exposure community?

From: Aaron Falk <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 09:31:13 -0400

Hi Folks-

I see I've missed the deadline for this note.  Sorry, I've been on
vacation...

FWIW, I think re-ECN is a cool, albeit unproven, idea and further
development and experimentation will help build understanding of the
benefits and missing pieces.  This work seems like a very good fit for
R&D at the intersection of the research, standardization, and operations
community.  IETF meetings are about as close as one can get, although
getting the right folks into the room takes work and shouldn't be
assumed.  One possible, useful outcome of a re-ECN BoF could be an
effort around developing an experimental protocol and encouraging
limited deployments, as the HIP advocates have done.

I regret that I do not have the cycles to actively participate so
consider this standing on the sidelines and nudging.  :)

cheers,

--aaron

ps.  I'm also thinking that "future Internet" research infrastructure,
like GENI, could provide instrumented, controlled -- and, over the next
few years, at-scale -- environments for  re-ECN (and other congestion
control) experiments but I don't think that is really a factor in the
BoF decision just a matter of my personal interest.

> Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 17:33:36 +0100
> To: [email-masked]
> From: Bob Briscoe <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Pls respond: Do we have a Congestion Exposure community?
>
> Folks,
>
> I'd like to try to arrange a Congestion Exposure (re-ECN) BoF in Nov
> at the Hiroshima IETF. If so, we have to notify the area directors v
> soon - by 24:00 UTC Mon 7 Sep 09. #1 gating function for Area
> Directors: activity on an ietf list.
>
> Therefore, pls respond preferably *on this list* if you're interested
> in being involved, no matter how insignificantly, e.g.
>
> - you want congestion visibility for other stuff you're doing
>   (but don't intend to work on it itself)
> - reviewing docs,
> - alternative way to achieve congestion exposure
> - participate in mailing list discussion,
> - co-authoring docs
> - design ways to do incremental deployment
> - using code for other stuff you're doing
> - thinking up new uses for the protocol
> - breaking it
> - analysing benefits/costs
> - implement protocol
> - implement a demo
> - running or participating in trials
> - standing on the sidelines booing or clapping
> - whatever
>
> Perceived problem:
> Most people want to work on something finite like a new cool
> non-TCP-friendly congestion control. Less people want to go into an
> pseudo-infinite loop fixing IP to allow other cool stuff to happen. If
> you want something like re-ECN to be there, but don't have the
> bandwidth to work on it, that's cool too - please say this - it's
> still palpable support. And you will be likely to have review comments
> related to how you want to use it.
>
> Cheers
>
>
> Bob
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Bob Briscoe,               Networks Research Centre, BT Research

---

From: Bob Briscoe <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 22:27:53 +0100

Aaron

>limited deployments, as the HIP advocates have done.

Definitely - HIP & LISP are the models of IETF process that we are 
learning from.

more...

>BoF decision just a matter of my personal interest.

Beg to differ - an interest / commitment to find a way to test 
re-ECN's claims would be a v important part of an experimental track 
protocol. If it's experimental, we have to do experiments to prove it 
can move on. The pre-requisite question to answer is "will 
experiments get done?"

It's even possible re-ECN could be used to share GENI resources. With 
a bit of imagination, it might even be possible to use it to drive 
the time-slot scheduling across slots not just between slots - rather 
than (or complementary to) resource reservations. I know 
repeatability is a big GENI thing, but that can't preclude multiplexing.

...Just arm-waving thoughts that would need deeper thought.

Bob

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