Subject: [rfc-i] Making a v3 document manually

From: "Joel M. Halpern" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2019 13:17:06 -0500

I was trying to move a nearly trivial document to v3.
I ran into a minor problem that I am not clear on how to solve.  (I 
expect such at this stage of the work.)

I have 3 references in the document.  I prefer to use the bibliographic 
inclusion mechanism, rather than entering the full reference.  From the 
FAW, I understand I am supposed to use <xi:include .../>  But I am 
missing how I am supposed to define the xi: prefix.

Suggestions?
Thanks,
Joel
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From: Julian Reschke <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2019 19:38:35 +0100

On 13.12.2019 19:17, Joel M. Halpern wrote:
> ...

The spec even has an example - see
<https://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/rfc7991.html#includingexternal>:

> In the v3 syntax, XInclude is expressed as the <xi:include> element. To use this element, you need to include the "xi" namespace in the <rfc> element; that is, you need to specify
>
> xmlns:xi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XInclude"
>
> as one of the attributes in the <rfc> element.

Best regards, Julian

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From: Alice Russo <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 11:27:55 -0800

FYI, this section of the FAQ has been updated accordingly:
https://www.rfc-editor.org/materials/FAQ-xml2rfcv3.html#section-2.4

Thanks,
Alice

> On Dec 13, 2019, at 10:38 AM, Julian Reschke <[email-masked]> wrote:
>

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From: "Pete Resnick" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 23:08:03 -0600

Since we're on the topic: I don't see bibxml files for the STD and BCP 
series available. It would be nice if the RFC Editor could create them. 
For example, it would be nice to be able to simply include 
reference.BCP.14.xml, which could contain:

   <referencegroup anchor="BCP14" 
target="https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/bcp14">
	  <xi:include 
href="http://www.rfc-editor.org/refs/bibxml/reference.RFC.2119.xml"/>
	  <xi:include 
href="http://www.rfc-editor.org/refs/bibxml/reference.RFC.8174.xml"/>
   </referencegroup>

It would save some typing.

pr

On 16 Dec 2019, at 13:27, Alice Russo wrote:

>>> In the v3 syntax, XInclude is expressed as the <xi:include> element. 
>>> To use this element, you need to include the "xi" namespace in the 
>>> <rfc> element; that is, you need to specify
>>>

-- 
Pete Resnick https://www.episteme.net/
All connections to the world are tenuous at best
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From: Julian Reschke <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 18:48:32 +0100

> It would save some typing.

Uh-oh... Recursive includes...

Best regards, Julian

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From: "Pete Resnick" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 12:49:19 -0600

> Uh-oh... Recursive includes...

Well, nested, not recursive, but either way: Would that be bad? I'm not 
wedded to any one way of doing this, and since they're likely to be 
auto-generated anyway, including the expanded reference in the 
referencegroup is unlikely to cause a problem. All I'm really interested 
in is the BCP and STD entries in the bibxml, whatever they actually 
contain.

pr

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From: Julian Reschke <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 20:01:54 +0100

> Well, nested, not recursive, but either way: Would that be bad? I'm not

Well, two more network requests...

> in is the BCP and STD entries in the bibxml, whatever they actually

Understood and +1.

Best regards, Julian

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From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 14:22:03 -0500

I would have a real problem with the bibxml containing <xi:include/>. It
would break my systems when running in offline mode.

I use tags of the form <norm target="RFC822"> to specify links to RFCs.
These cause the processor to attempt to resolve the reference against a
local cache followed by an external network request if it fails.

If you put <xi:include/> in the bibxml files they are now tied to the
network reference and I have to do a lot of work to undo that so I can
cache them correctly.

It would be nice if you could add my <norm> and <info> elements or add an
attribute to xref to capture this info so that I can round trip source docs
between the Word, Markdown and XML representations without loss of
information.

The subtler issue this brings up is that RFC822 is a fixed reference that
will never change meaning while BCP14 is not. It can and does change over
time.
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From: Julian Reschke <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 20:29:07 +0100

> It would save some typing.

FWIW, this reminds me of
<https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-xml2rfc-v3-bis/issues/10>, yet
another open issue that has not been acted upon...

Best regards, Julian

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From: "Pete Resnick" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 14:22:40 -0600

> would break my systems when running in offline mode.

Like I said, I am ambivalent about the specific implementation, just 

> network reference and I have to do a lot of work to undo that so I can

You could also resolve the includes when you build your cache.

> will never change meaning while BCP14 is not. It can and does change 

Which says that you're going to have to refresh your cache for BCP and 
STD regularly to make sure you've got the latest contents.

pr

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From: "HANSEN, TONY L" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 05:06:54 +0000

On 12/18/19, 12:10 PM, "rfc-interest on behalf of Pete Resnick" <[email-masked] on behalf of [email-masked]> wrote:

    . . .
    
Oh goody, a small programming task for my end-of-year vacation. :)

Please peruse these directories and let me know what you think.

    http://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml-test/	uses xi:include
    http://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml-test2/	expands the references

If either is acceptable, I'll turn them loose with a more permanent reference name. 

What do you think of this as the permanent reference name?

    http://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml-bcp-fyi-std

	Tony

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From: Carsten Bormann <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 06:51:52 +0100

>    http://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml-bcp-fyi-std

That would be the expanded form?

I’d probably have separate directories for BCP and STD (are we still doing FYIs?)

Grüße, Carsten

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From: Ted Hardie <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 10:46:31 -0800

> I’d probably have separate directories for BCP and STD (are we still doing
The FYI subseries was closed by RFC 6360
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6360>.

regards,

Ted

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From: "Pete Resnick" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 13:03:41 -0600

>>> If either is acceptable, I'll turn them loose with a more permanent 

Either works for me; some folks obviously prefer the expanded reference 
version. Since the data for the RFCs themselves is static, I see no harm 
in going with the expanded version.

>>>    http://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml-bcp-fyi-std

RFC 2026 refers to these as "subseries". Perhaps "bibxml-rfcsubseries"?

>> I’d probably have separate directories for BCP and STD

Or that. There are few enough of them that a single directory is not 
unreasonable, but overall I'd say "implementer's choice."

>> (are we still doing FYIs?)
>

Which does say, "The FYI numbers continue to provide reference points 
for these documents, and the FYI number can be used in citations to 
these documents", so it's probably reasonable to have the entries for 
them.

pr

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From: "HANSEN, TONY L" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2019 02:13:58 +0000

On 12/19/19, 2:03 PM, "Pete Resnick" <[email-masked]> wrote:

    

    

    > < https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6360>.

Given the discussion, and the small number of files, I decided to put them all into http://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/public/rfc/bibxml-rfcsubseries as suggested. The documentation at https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/ has been updated as well.

They are the expanded versions of the files -- no xi:includes involved.

All three subseries are included: BCP, FYI and STD. The then-current rfc-index.xml file is checked hourly to see if any changes are needed.

Hope they are found useful. If any further tweaks are needed, please raise them on rfc-interest.

	Tony