Subject: RE: [Sip] Sip support for TCAP queries

From: "Chong, Koan S, ALABS" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:27:14 -0600

A couple specific questions:
 
What is the recommendation on how a SIP network element can access the
callers' name databases (CNAM in US) in PSTN after the SIP element has
determined that the called parties have subscribed to Caller ID?
 
How about interworking with CLASS Auto-Recall/Callback (CCBS in ITU?)
procedures?
 
Assume TCAP over SIGTRAN is a bit long long term....
 
Koan
Koan S.Chong
AT&T
1-732-420-4557

-----Original Message-----
From: Frank W. Miller [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 6:18 PM
To: 'McCandless, Kevin'
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Sip] Sip support for TCAP queries

You mean other than us implementing it?  No, I don't think so.  I think
its considered Rosemary's Baby by most...

FM

Frank W. Miller, Ph.D.

Chief Technical Officer

sentitO Networks, Inc.

[email-masked]

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of
McCandless, Kevin
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 4:11 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Sip] Sip support for TCAP queries

Has any progress been taken on the draft by Frank Miller on Carrying
TCAP in SIP messages?  Are there other drafts that address SIP access to
SS7 database information through TCAP or another method?

Thanks,

Kevin

---

From: "Frank W. Miller" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:50:15 -0500

The main idea of this draft was to provide a capability for SIP endpoints to
do TCAP queries without having to implement the binary TCAP protocol.  The
motivation is that there are a lot of TCAP queries that take place (800,
LNP, CNAME) that are really simple and that major carriers may not want to
go and reimplement in an ENUM database in the short term.  These carriers
have spent a lot of money on their SCPs and converting the to ENUM is
non-trivial.  Now, the SCPs could be front-ended and conversion can be
automated but this draft provides an alternative.  So, to answer the first
question, the SIP endpoint formats the correct query in the XML format
specified and sends if using an INFO to a Signaling Gateway (SG).  The SG
then converts the query to binary TCAP and dips the SCP.  The XML format can
be templated in the implementation so the effort is quite minimal on the SIP
endpoint.  To answer the second question, the draft talks about a couple of
examples but the specification encompasses the entire TCAP message set so
you can format the appropriate dip for AR/C.  One caveat is that the draft
is Telcordia based.  It would need to be extended to take into account other
variants.  On the third question, <personal view> I'm a believer in
translation over tunneling, tunneling just puts off work and mixes messaging
from different signaling networks unnecessarily</personal view>.

FM

Frank W. Miller, Ph.D.

Chief Technical Officer

sentitO Networks, Inc.

[email-masked]

-----Original Message-----
From: Chong, Koan S, ALABS [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 11:27 AM
To: Frank W. Miller; McCandless, Kevin
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Sip] Sip support for TCAP queries

Koan

Koan S.Chong

AT&T

1-732-420-4557

-----Original Message-----
From: Frank W. Miller [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 6:18 PM
To: 'McCandless, Kevin'
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Sip] Sip support for TCAP queries

You mean other than us implementing it?  No, I don't think so.  I think its
considered Rosemary's Baby by most.

FM

Frank W. Miller, Ph.D.

Chief Technical Officer

sentitO Networks, Inc.

[email-masked]

-----Original Message-----

Has any progress been taken on the draft by Frank Miller on Carrying TCAP in
SIP messages?  Are there other drafts that address SIP access to SS7
database information through TCAP or another method?

Thanks,

Kevin

---

From: "Tolga Asveren" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 12:05:45 -0500

Message
  -----Original Message-----
  From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf Of Frank W.
Miller
  Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 11:50 AM
  To: 'Chong, Koan S, ALABS'
  Cc: [email-masked]
  Subject: RE: [Sip] Sip support for TCAP queries

  The main idea of this draft was to provide a capability for SIP endpoints
to do TCAP queries without having to implement the binary TCAP protocol.
The motivation is that there are a lot of TCAP queries that take place (800,

  [TOLGA]-Although I believe this comment would fit more to SIGTRAN WG-
SIGTRAN is not tunneling, it just uses SCTP as transport, like SIP uses
TCAP/UDP/SCTP. If you consider SS7 messages tunneled with SIGTRAN, the same
should apply also for SIP messages. So, I don't see any disadvantage of
using it to do a TCAP query to a database. And I would think,  SIP is also
not the best way to do it, considering that it is a protocol about
"sessions". If one wants to reuse existing equipment -which talks TCAP-,
traditional SS7 or SIGTRAN are IMO the best two choices.

  FM

  Frank W. Miller, Ph.D.

  Chief Technical Officer

  sentitO Networks, Inc.

  [email-masked]

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Chong, Koan S, ALABS [mailto:[email-masked]]
  Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 11:27 AM
  To: Frank W. Miller; McCandless, Kevin
  Cc: [email-masked]
  Subject: RE: [Sip] Sip support for TCAP queries

  Koan

  Koan S.Chong

  AT&T

  1-732-420-4557

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Frank W. Miller [mailto:[email-masked]]
    Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 6:18 PM
    To: 'McCandless, Kevin'
    Cc: [email-masked]
    Subject: RE: [Sip] Sip support for TCAP queries

    You mean other than us implementing it?  No, I don't think so.  I think
its considered Rosemary's Baby by most.

    FM

    Frank W. Miller, Ph.D.

    Chief Technical Officer

    sentitO Networks, Inc.

    [email-masked]

    -----Original Message-----

    Has any progress been taken on the draft by Frank Miller on Carrying
TCAP in SIP messages?  Are there other drafts that address SIP access to SS7
database information through TCAP or another method?

    Thanks,

    Kevin