Subject: [Sip] WGLC for draft-ietf-sip-answermode-00

From: Rohan Mahy <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 19:32:28 -0800

Hi,

I'd like to start a 3-week working group last call for:

	draft-ietf-sip-answermode-00.txt

This WGLC will complete on March 15th

thanks,
-rohan

Rohan Mahy
co-chair SIP WG

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---

From: Hans Persson <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 13:37:36 +0100

> 	draft-ietf-sip-answermode-00.txt

I have a couple of questions where I would like clarifications and a
whole slew of nits.

Questions:

Page 8, Req-11: I'm not able to make sense of "[...] knowledge that may
be important in informing UAC-user's usage of the session.".

Page 12, Section 4.2.1: In this paragraph is the text: "must be done
very carefully and only in the context of an external agreement between
the proxy operator and the user of the UA.". The text "the UA"
(singular) implies that we're talking about only one of the UAC and the
UAS and not both, but I think it would be good to explicitly state which
one is meant (I assume it would be the UAS, but more clarity won't
hurt).

Nits:

Page 5, last paragraph: intercom(m) is spelled with first one, then two,
then again one "m".

Page 6, first (complete) paragraph: two instances of "caes" instead of
"cases" and one of "Ther" instead of "There".
Req-1: "for UAC" should be "for the UAC" and "UAS-user" should be "the
UAS-user".

Page 7, Req-2: "the UAC", "the UAS-user", "the UAS".
Req-3: "the UAS".
Req-4: "the UAC", "the UAS". Period missing at the end.
Req-5: "the UAC"
Req-6: "the UAS" (twice), "and or" should be "and/or".
Req-7: "the UAS", duplicated "that", "the UAS".

Page 8, Req-9: "the UAC", "the UAS".
Req-10: "the UAC or the UAS"
Req-11: "the UAS", "the UAC", "the UAC-user".
Req-12: "a UAS" or "UASs". Actually this type of form may be the correct
choise for some of the above cases as well, but *something* is
definitely missing.

Page 9, last paragraph of section 3: shouldn't this be "implementations
MUST" for clarity?
Last paragraph: Period missing before "For example".

Page 10, first paragraph of section 4.1.3: insert "an" before
"appropriate parameter".
second paragraph, 4.1.3: "a Answer-Mode" should be "an Answer-Mode".
Ditto in the following three paragraphs.

Page 11, third (complete) paragraph: It looks messy to put text
containing double quotes inside double quotes. The same goes for the
following two paragraphs. In the last of these three, the problematic
passage also contains an extra spurious double quote.

Page 12, first (incomplete) paragraph: "prefxing" should be "prefixing".
Section 4.2.1: "a Answer-Mode" should be "an...".
Section 4.2.2, first paragraph: "UAS" -> "UASs" (twice, and once each in
the next two paragraphs). 

Page 13, section 4.3.1, first paragraph: "for unattended UAS" -> "for
unattended UASs".
Third paragraph: "a Answer-Mode" -> "an ...".
Fourth paragraph: This talks about 'an Answer-Mode *parameter* of
"Auto"'. The previous paragraph has 'an Answer-Mode *value* of "Auto"'.
Please use a consistent naming scheme.

Page 15, section 5, first paragraph: Duplicated "the".
Section 5.1: "a Answer-Mode" -> "an..." (twice).

Page 16, first (incomplete) paragraph: "UAS" (last instance) -> "UASs".
Section 6: Duplicated "an". "asnwering" -> "answering".

Page 19, first (incomplete) paragraph: Duplicated "a".

Page 20, first item 1: Missing period at end.
Item 4: "nee o" -> "need to".
First paragraph after items 1-5: Extra comma before "[2]".
Second item 1: Missing period at end (and also for item 2, on the next
page).

Hans

-- 
Hans Persson <[email-masked]>    Ingate - Firewalls with SIP & NAT
Ingate Systems AB  +46 13 210877   http://www.ingate.com/

Private: <[email-masked]>  http://www.lysator.liu.se/~unicorn/

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From: "Jeroen van Bemmel" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 19:09:03 +0100

Rohan,

Two remarks:
1. I would propose to change the ABNF to allow for a list of generic-params, 
as is common for most SIP headers
    The current version limits the extensibility to 1 parameter (name=value) 
which would replace "Manual" or "Auto", and possibly a list of tokens (which 
would be interpreted as flag parameters)

How about the following:
Answer-Mode = "Answer-Mode" HCOLON answer-mode *(SEMI answer-mode-param)
Priv-Answer-Mode = "Priv-Answer-Mode" HCOLON answer-mode *(SEMI 
answer-mode-param)

answer-mode = "Manual" / "Auto" / token
answer-mode-param = "require" / generic-param2. (NIT) Example section 6.2, 
"Requires" header should be "Require"

Regards,

jeroen

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From: Paul Kyzivat <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 01:16:48 -0500

OK, I reviewed this one more time. Below are a bunch of things. They are 
all small except for the last one.

	Paul

> This WGLC will complete on March 15th

There are several instances of a feature tag of 
"extension="answermode"". That ought to be "extensions".

(I know dean consulted me on this long ago to get it right, so its most 
likely my own error.)

Note that there are also some correct usages in the doc.

In section 6.1, a Contact header is folded across multiple lines, but 
the subsequent lines are not indented.

In section 7.3: s/nee o make/need to make/

In section 7.4:

    User agents implementing this specification MUST NOT establish a
    session providing outbound or bidirectional media without explicit
    user acceptance.

Isn't this a little strong? It totally eliminates the baby monitor as a 
supported application. It also eliminates using this in support of a 
loopback test mode.

---

From: Dean Willis <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 01:34:48 -0600

On Feb 24, 2006, at 12:16 AM, Paul Kyzivat wrote:

> (I know dean consulted me on this long ago to get it right, so its  
> most likely my own error.)

Hey, I just cut-and-paste. I don't know nothing.

> Note that there are also some correct usages in the doc.

I got lucky?

> In section 6.1, a Contact header is folded across multiple lines,  
> but the subsequent lines are not indented.
>

xml2rfc . .  .

> In section 7.3: s/nee o make/need to make/

thanks.

> Isn't this a little strong? It totally eliminates the baby monitor  
> as a supported application. It also eliminates using this in  
> support of a loopback test mode.

Eliminating any possibility of baby monitor was a "very hard"  
requirement from Cullen. I don't think, however, that looped-back  
media counts as bidirectional. I can probably tack a caveat on here  
for media reflection or loopback.

--
Dean

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From: Dean Willis <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 01:42:46 -0600

n Feb 23, 2006, at 12:09 PM, Jeroen van Bemmel wrote:

> Rohan,
>
> Two remarks:
> 1. I would propose to change the ABNF to allow for a list of  
> generic-params, as is common for most SIP headers
>    The current version limits the extensibility to 1 parameter  
> (name=value) which would replace "Manual" or "Auto", and possibly a  
> list of tokens (which would be interpreted as flag parameters)
>
> How about the following:
> answer-mode-param = "require" / generic-param2. (NIT) Example  
> section 6.2, "Requires" header should be "Require"
>

Yeah, that works for me.

OK with you, Paul? You sent the other syntax.

--
Dean

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From: Paul Kyzivat <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 12:15:34 -0500

Yes, that works for me, almost. What is "generic-param2"? I presume 
"generic-param" is what is intended.

	Paul

Dean Willis wrote:
>> Answer-Mode = "Answer-Mode" HCOLON answer-mode *(SEMI answer-mode- param)
>> answer-mode-param = "require" / generic-param2. (NIT) Example  section 
>> 6.2, "Requires" header should be "Require"
>>
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, that works for me.
>

---

From: "Jeroen van Bemmel" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 19:11:35 +0100

Paul,

Sorry, the newline fell away (2 was a second, minor point). It should say:

Answer-Mode = "Answer-Mode" HCOLON answer-mode *(SEMI answer-mode- param)
Priv-Answer-Mode = "Priv-Answer-Mode" HCOLON answer-mode *(SEMI 
answer-mode-param)
answer-mode = "Manual" / "Auto" / token
answer-mode-param = "require" / generic-param

2. Example section 6.2, "Requires" header should be "Require"

jeroen

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Kyzivat" <[email-masked]>
To: "Dean Willis" <[email-masked]>
Cc: "Jeroen van Bemmel" <[email-masked]>; "Rohan Mahy" 
<[email-masked]>; "SIP WG" <[email-masked]>
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Sip] WGLC for draft-ietf-sip-answermode-00