Subject: RE: [Sipping] SIP and AAA open questions and RADIUSEXT meeting

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:24:58 +0300

Hi Dean,

Some very quick comments:

> Let's revisit where we are on the SIP-AAA work. Or at least where I THINK we
> are, so please help me get this right.
> 
> 1) We have a requirements draft.
> http://www.softarmor.com/wgdb/docs/draft-ietf-sipping-aaa-req-03.txt
> 
> 2) We have a RADIUS draft that is VERY expired, but variations are widely implemented:
> http://www.softarmor.com/wgdb/docs/draft-sterman-aaa-sip-00.txt
> 
> 3) There's a DIAMETER draft:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-aaa-diameter-sip-app-00.txt

The Diameter work has some constituency (at least 3GPP) and is chartered
in the AAA.  Work is well underway.  We are happy to get input from the
SIP community on this draft.  However,  I think RADIUS extensions for
SIP is a different issue than this.

> 4) There's a RADIUS Accounting draft from Henning et al, which I seem to
> have misplaced the text of.
> 
> We seem to have a consensus to do at least some work in standardizing RADIUS
> usage. It appears that the likeliest way forward is to conclude on the
> Sterman draft. We also seem to have an interest (if not consensus yet) in
> doing something to help with accounting for SIP operations using RADIUS.
> 
> Bernard Aboba, chairing the RADIUSEXT work, would like to know what if
> anything we would like RADIUSEXT to include on their agenda for the November
> meeting. It looks like they MIGHT be meeting Friday morning (agendas do
> change).
> 
> I'm thinking:
> 
> 1) The Sterman-AAA draft:
> Any volunteers to present and lead the discussion for this in RADIUSEXT?
> 
> I believe we have a consensus to proceed with this draft in SIPPING of
> RADIUSEXT doesn't want to take the lead. I would propose that the work be
> jointly reviewed.
> 
> 2) The RADIUS Accounting draft:
> Any volunteers to present and lead the discussion for this in 
> RADIUSEXT? 

I think what is more important for the RADIUS work is to find some
folks who are willing to get the work done.  Wishing & hoping that
the work is done (by someone else) is not a good solution.

thanks,
John

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Use [email-masked] for questions on current sip
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---

From: Henry Sinnreich <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:06:11 -0500

It is true and regrettable that though practically all deployed and soon to
deploy mobile services use RADIUS, there is a lack of volunteers to write
the required documents for AAA-SIP.

This is however orthogonal to the merits of RADIUS vs. DIAMETER that has
been discussed to saturation on this list. Service providers have clearly
stated their desire for SIP-RADIUS to be properly documented. Maybe the
existing specs are just good enough - as attested by reported deployments -
so people are just using -sterman-aaa-sip-00.txt and keep working on their
the day jobs?

Thanks, Henry

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of
[email-masked]
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 2:25 AM
To: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Sipping] SIP and AAA open questions and RADIUSEXT meeting

Hi Dean,

thanks,
John

---

From: Juha Heinanen <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:18:09 +0300

Henry Sinnreich writes:

 > Maybe the

i believe that that is largely the case.  i rather write new code than
re-document existing one.

one note about radius accounting draft.  i don't remember if it included
accounting of forwarded calls (where, by whom and why).  if not, then
those should be added if the document ever gets progressed.

-- juha

---

From: "Baruch Sterman" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:21:43 +0200

I won't be able to make the meeting, but please let me know what I can
do to push this forward.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf
Of Henry Sinnreich
Sent: 23 October 2003 15:06
To: [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Sipping] SIP and AAA open questions and RADIUSEXT meeting

It is true and regrettable that though practically all deployed and soon
to deploy mobile services use RADIUS, there is a lack of volunteers to
write the required documents for AAA-SIP.

This is however orthogonal to the merits of RADIUS vs. DIAMETER that has
been discussed to saturation on this list. Service providers have
clearly stated their desire for SIP-RADIUS to be properly documented.
Maybe the existing specs are just good enough - as attested by reported
deployments - so people are just using -sterman-aaa-sip-00.txt and keep
working on their the day jobs?

Thanks, Henry

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf
Of [email-masked]
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 2:25 AM
To: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Sipping] SIP and AAA open questions and RADIUSEXT meeting

Hi Dean,

Some very quick comments:

> Let's revisit where we are on the SIP-AAA work. Or at least where I 
> THINK
we
> 2) We have a RADIUS draft that is VERY expired, but variations are 
> widely

> 4) There's a RADIUS Accounting draft from Henning et al, which I seem 
> to have misplaced the text of.
> 

> Sterman draft. We also seem to have an interest (if not consensus yet)

> in doing something to help with accounting for SIP operations using 
> RADIUS.
> 

> meeting. It looks like they MIGHT be meeting Friday morning (agendas 
> do change).
> 
> I'm thinking:
> 

> RADIUSEXT doesn't want to take the lead. I would propose that the work

> be jointly reviewed.

I think what is more important for the RADIUS work is to find some folks
who are willing to get the work done.  Wishing & hoping that the work is
done (by someone else) is not a good solution.

thanks,
John

_______________________________________________
Sipping mailing list  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping
This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP
Use [email-masked] for questions on current sip Use
[email-masked] for new developments of core SIP

_______________________________________________
Sipping mailing list  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping
This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP
Use [email-masked] for questions on current sip Use
[email-masked] for new developments of core SIP

---

From: Henry Sinnreich <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:45:44 -0500

> I won't be able to make the meeting, 
>but please let me know what I can do to push this forward.

Baruch,

Your contribution would be really appreciated! Could you review your I-D and
resubmit with updates as required as version .01?

Incidentally, I see the new 802.x ISP settlement projects are based on
RADIUS and imply SIP as well.

The discussions on the list do not require your presence and those of us
interested in this work and present can vote in the next meeting. 

Will this work?

Thanks, Henry

Henry Sinnreich

MCI
400 International Parkway
Richardson, Texas 75081
USA

Have you disconnected the PBX?

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of
Baruch Sterman
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 8:22 AM
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Sipping] SIP and AAA open questions and RADIUSEXT meeting

-----Original Message-----

Thanks, Henry

-----Original Message-----

Hi Dean,

we

thanks,
John

---

From: Dean Willis <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:45:44 -0500

> interested in this work and present can vote in the next meeting. 

It's a good suggestion, but 

1) We've missed the cutoff date for IETF 58, and

2) We haven't given Baruch any feedback about updating the draft, at
least not any recently.

3) We don't really vote in meetings anyhow -- consensus can readily be
determined "on the list".

I propose to chat privately with Baruch and others and come back with a
proposal for moving forward.

--
Dean

---

From: Bernard Aboba <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:11:49 -0700 (PDT)

> I won't be able to make the meeting, but please let me know what I can

The most obvious things would be:

a. To volunteer to edit the draft (in SIPPING or RADEXT)
b. To find someone to present the draft (at this and other meetings)