Subject: [tao-discuss] A small Tao delta suggestion

From: "Adrian Farrel" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 14:33:12 +0100

Hi,

Something popped up on the Diversity list about IETF meetings.

It may not be immediately apparent to everyone that a number of other meetings
are held behind closed (or closed-ish) doors when the IETF gathers. I wonder if
we can add a sentence to that effect in section 3 or section 3.14 (I think
section 3 would be more appropriate).

Something along the lines of...

OLD

The general flow of an IETF meeting is that it begins with tutorials and an
informal gathering on Sunday, and that there are WG and BoF meetings Monday
through Friday. WG meetings last for between 1 and 2.5 hours each, and some WGs
have meetings multiple times during the week, depending on how much work they
anticipate doing. 

There are two plenary sessions, one technical and one administrative, in the
evenings during the week. The technical plenary is organized by the IAB and
usually has one or two panels of experts on topics of interest across many WGs
and Areas. The administrative plenary, organized by the IETF Chair, covers
things like progress reports from the RFC Editor and announcements of upcoming
meetings. The plenaries are a good time to share with the IESG and IAOC. Praise
is welcome, but more often concerns and gripes are raised. 

NEW

The general flow of an IETF meeting is that it begins with tutorials and an
informal gathering on Sunday, and that there are WG and BoF meetings Monday
through Friday. WG meetings last for between 1 and 2.5 hours each, and some WGs
have meetings multiple times during the week, depending on how much work they
anticipate doing. 

There are two plenary sessions, one technical and one administrative, in the
evenings during the week. The technical plenary is organized by the IAB and
usually has one or two panels of experts on topics of interest across many WGs
and Areas. The administrative plenary, organized by the IETF Chair, covers
things like progress reports from the RFC Editor and announcements of upcoming
meetings. The plenaries are a good time to share with the IESG and IAOC. Praise
is welcome, but more often concerns and gripes are raised. 

Most meetings during an IETF meeting are completely open to any registered
attender. However, there may be some meetings behind closed doors (for example,
meetings of the IESG or IAB, or private discussions of a design team). Don't be
surprised if you are politely but firmly asked to leave if you accidentally
stumble into one of these meeting.

END

Cheers,
Adrian

---

From: Paul Hoffman <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 06:57:31 -0700

> stumble into one of these meeting.

I like the first two sentences, but don't feel good about the last one. I think the second sentence is sufficient to say "you're not invited to some things".

--Paul Hoffman

---

From: Abdussalam Baryun <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 16:32:22 +0200

I suggest that the community SHOULD monitor such private IETF meeting
rooms, why are they close doors, what is needed to not show to the
community. Why thoes private rooms selected the IETF meeting avenues
to make their private meet? I suggest that there is allowance to some
interested-people to attend from the community (from all regions) in
it is necessary to close doors on others.

Did the community allow that these special meetings to be close doors,
and if yes is the raised-issues and out-come private as well, I don't
think so,

AB

On 6/18/13, Paul Hoffman <[email-masked]> wrote:
> I like the first two sentences, but don't feel good about the last one. I
> think the second sentence is sufficient to say "you're not invited to some
> things".
>
> --Paul Hoffman
> _______________________________________________
> tao-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tao-discuss
>

---

From: "Adrian Farrel" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 15:52:40 +0100

The Tao, I believe, states how things are.
The Tao is not an IETF process document and cannot describe new process.
Let's let it do its job.

You want something to be debated and possibly changed. Good. Please have that
debate where it can have an impact (not here where we discuss the Tao) and see
whether others agree. If they do, the change might get made.

Adrian

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On
> Behalf Of Abdussalam Baryun
> Sent: 18 June 2013 15:32
> To: tao-discuss
> Subject: Re: [tao-discuss] A small Tao delta suggestion
>

---

From: "Adrian Farrel" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 16:08:03 +0100

wfm
My *only* thought was that we might explain the likely outcome.
A

> From: Paul Hoffman [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: 18 June 2013 14:58
> To: [email-masked]
> Cc: [email-masked]
think the
> second sentence is sufficient to say "you're not invited to some things".
> 
> --Paul Hoffman=

---

From: Juliao Braga <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 22:19:36 -0300

I agree with your proposal Adrian. It's a good clarification and answers
what was discussed on the list diversity.

Julião