Subject: RE: Capability detectio9n (was: "Wallet" Detection)

From: Ian King <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:34:26 -0800

RESCAP was a BOF on Monday.  While I did not attend, the title is suggestive
of a solution for this problem space.  

The problem of doing things in a "standards way" is that yes, it takes time.
However, the ultimate win is usually worth it, in terms of acceptance and
interoperability.  :-) And, while this may be a piece that will make IOTP
better (although I can't see that it's essential), I'd still suggest that a
"general" solution to this class of problem is out of scope for the group.  

Ian King <[email-masked]>
Internet Bill Delivery & Payment
MICROSOFT CORPORATION

-----Original Message-----
From: Donald E. Eastlake 3rd
To: Graham Klyne
Cc: [email-masked]
Sent: 3/16/99 11:55 PM
Subject: Re: Capability detectio9n (was: "Wallet" Detection) 

"conneg" seems to be primarily concerned with future development in
how to negotiate the form of delivered information, not its type.
As such, I don't see how it is relevant to designing a workable
technique
for near term implementation.  Even if a new standards track document
popped out soon, it could be long time before it is ceployed.

"rescap" doesn't seem to be on the IETF web pages right now.

Thanks,
Donald

From:  Graham Klyne <[email-masked]>
Message-Id:  <[email-masked]>
X-Sender:  [email-masked]
Date:  Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:47:10 +0000
To:  "Donald E. Eastlake 3rd" <[email-masked]>
Cc:  [email-masked]

>At 11:37 14/03/99 -0500, Donald E. Eastlake 3rd wrote:
>>
>>For the Internet Open Trading Protocol and similar protocols operating
>>via HTTP, web servers are frequently faced with the problem of
>>determining whether software to handle the protocol they wish to use
>>is installed at the user's browser/machine.  This frequently means
>>finding out if a particular MIME type, such as application/iotp, is
>>being handled.
>
>I would suggest that the work of the 'conneg' group might be surveyed
for
>possibly useful components (including some recent I-D submissions).
>
>Also, the 'rescap' group's work might prove to have some relevance.
>
>#g
>
>------------
>Graham Klyne
>([email-masked])
>
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From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:18:31 -0500

See comments below preceeded by ##...

Donald E. Eastlake, 3rd
17 Skyline Drive, Hawthorne, NY 10532 USA
[email-masked]   tel: 1-914-784-7913, fax: 1-914-784-3833

home: 65 Shindegan Hill Road, RR#1, Carmel, NY 10512 USA
[email-masked]   tel: 1-914-276-2668

Ian King <[email-masked]> on 03/17/99 12:34:26 PM

To:   "'Donald E. Eastlake 3rd '" <[email-masked]>, "'Graham Klyne
      '" <[email-masked]>
cc:   "[email-masked] '" <[email-masked]> (bcc: Donald
      Eastlake/Hawthorne/IBM)
Subject:  RE: Capability detectio9n (was: "Wallet" Detection)

RESCAP was a BOF on Monday.  While I did not attend, the title is
suggestive
of a solution for this problem space.

## If it is a solution and even if it were elevated to standard today, I
## think it would be a couple of years before it was widely deployed.

## Every day people create web pages or items designed to be displayed
## in web pages, such as banner ads, that need to know if a MIME type
## handler is installed at a user's browser so they can offer the user
## an installation/download option or gracefully degrade when the
## requisit MIME type handler is not installed.  My concept in
## suggesting this work item was to document the best current
## engineering practice we can find in this area as a suggestion to
## the IOTP merchant site implementer today.

The problem of doing things in a "standards way" is that yes, it takes
time.
However, the ultimate win is usually worth it, in terms of acceptance and
interoperability.  :-)

## A big advantage of IOTP is that if it is installed at the merchant
## and the consumer, the merchant need only display a single "buy" or
## "pay" button even as the merchant adds new payment schemes.
## Without IOTP, you are generally reduced to having a button per
## payment scheme and if the poor user clicks on the wrong one, the
## transaction fails.

## There is a "standards way" of solving this: the Accepts header.  But
## Netscape and Microsoft, in their competitive scramble have produced
## a very jumbled browers landscape out there as to what is actually
## deployed.  In terms of 'acceptance', I think that waiting
## around a couple of years for there to be an almost universally
## deployed "standards way" of doing this is to guarantee little
## acceptance of IOTP or anything else that encounters this problem on
## the global Internet.  (They could, of course, always be used in
## controlled pilot or intranet environments.)

And, while this may be a piece that will make IOTP
better (although I can't see that it's essential), I'd still suggest that a
"general" solution to this class of problem is out of scope for the group.

## I agee that the TRADE WG shouldn't care about a "general" solution to
## this class of problem. But I havn't figured out a way to construct a
## solution such that the type of solution only works for applicaiton/iotp.
## And, I don't understand why effort should be put into being sure the
## suggested technique is broken for other cases.  If you have some ideas
## on how to solve this for IOTP only, I'd be happyt to hear them.

## Thanks,
## Donald

-----Original Message-----
From: Donald E. Eastlake 3rd
To: Graham Klyne
Cc: [email-masked]
Sent: 3/16/99 11:55 PM
Subject: Re: Capability detectio9n (was: "Wallet" Detection)

Thanks,
Donald

for