Subject: TRADE WG Meeting, Salt Lake City
From: "Donald E. Eastlake 3rd" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 12:17:18 -0500
List-Id: <ietf-trade.lists.elistx.com>

Hi,

The TRADE WG Meeting has been tentatively schedule for 0900-1130
Tuesday morning, December 11th, at the next IETF meeting in Salt Lake
city.
<http://www.ietf.org/meetings/IETF-52.html>
This might change but is probably fairly stable.

Please send me any suggestions for agenda items.

Thanks,
Donald

=====================================================================
 Donald E. Eastlake 3rd                      [email-masked]
 155 Beaver Street                                +1 508-634-2066(h)
 Milford, MA 01757 USA                            +1 508-261-5434(w)

Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 23:30:26 +0200
From: Ofer Avineri <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits
To: "Burdett, David" <[email-masked]>, 'Ronald Duncan' <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
Importance: Normal

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Ronald,

I think “Credits” would be too generic brand to use. I would support David’s
offer to add a distinguished prefix or suffix.

Ofer

-----Original Message-----
From: Burdett, David [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 23:00
To: 'Ronald Duncan'; [email-masked]
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits

Ronald

I think that "Credits" is too general a term (what do other people think?).
It's a bit like trying to make the plural of "Cash" a BrandId except that it
does not have one. I think that "Credits" should have some prefix or suffix.
What do you think would work?

David
-----Original Message-----
From: Ronald Duncan [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 11:47 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits
Personally, I dislike substituting 'at' for the @ and prefer to just drop
the @.

This has evolved into a standard procedure since we currently have
approximately 350 @ branded companies.  In all cases we drop the @ and just
use the name for the domain name, phone directory and other systems and the
@ comes back in for email addresses.

We would prefer to use just 'credits' and should another company wish to use
a brand based on 'credits' they could add a suffix or prefix to distinguish
the entries.

Regards -- Ronald
-----Original Message-----
From: Burdett, David [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: 24 October 2001 18:02
To: 'Ronald Duncan'; [email-masked]
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits
Ronald
How about a Brand Id of "AtCredits" as it sounds like your real brand name
"@Credits" yet should avoid all the problems of using the "@" (e.g. in
certificates) and would avoid the confusion of using "Credits" which is too
general a name in my view.
Regards
David Burdett
-----Original Message-----
From: Ronald Duncan [ mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 12:42 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits

Thanks for the comments.
The reason for applying for a BrandId of credits vs @credits (which is the
brand we use and is our trademark) is the number of systems that have
problems with the @ symbol as you discovered with the search engines.
E.G. Our secure certificate is in the name of 'at UK PLC' because a bug in
the verisign software that causes it to crash if there is an @ or other
unusual characters in the name.
Hence our general policy of dropping the @ where it is going to be used in
systems and might cause interoperability problems in the future.
You are right that the use of descriptive names is a two edged sword.  E.g.
@UK PLC has significant problems with search engines since both UK and PLC
are common and the combination is non unique.  This is combined with the
problems associated with the @ symbol which is generally dropped.
--
Regards  --  [email-masked] http://www.ukplc.net
+44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000     Mobile 07973 754 817     Fax 0118 963 7350
@UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Smith [ mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: 24 October 2001 07:34
To: [email-masked]; Ronald Duncan
Subject: Re: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits

Given that the company holding the brand
is @Credits PLC, wouldn't it make more
sense to apply for the BrandId of "@Credits" ?
Keep in mind that - as far as I know - the
assignment of a BrandId under IOTP confers
no standing of any kind. It's just a keyword
used for matching, not a trademark registration.
Users won't ever see it - they will see the
BrandName.
Not only that, it's going to make you hard
to find. Standard search engines don't seem
to locate you when I search on @UK PLC,
and searching on @Credits acts like the @
isn't even there.
It might seem like a cool idea to have
common words as brands, but it doesn't
always work well. My experience is just
the opposite - look at my last name.
It does not make me easier to find - it
makes me much harder to find, even for
people who know where to look.
...Chris Smith

On Oct 23, 2001 at 10:40pm, Ronald Duncan wrote:
> We would like to apply for the brand ID 'Credits' for our Internet
Currency
> 'Credits'
>
> The ultimate holding company is @UK PLC http://www.uk-plc.net.  The
> subsidiary holding the brand is @Credits PLC.
>
> Thank you.
>
> --
> Regards  --  [email-masked] http://www.ukplc.net
> +44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000     Mobile 07973 754 817     Fax 0118 963 7350
> @UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Smith                                       <[email-masked]>

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<div class=Section1 dir=RTL>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>Ronald,<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>I think &#8220;Credits&#8221; would be too generic brand to use. I would support
David&#8217;s offer to add a distinguished prefix or suffix.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>Ofer<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Burdett, David
[mailto:[email-masked]]<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, October 24, 2001
23:00<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> 'Ronald Duncan';
[email-masked]<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: New Brand/Brand ID:
Credits</span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]></span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Ronald</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>I think
that &quot;Credits&quot; is too general a term (what do other people think?).
It's a bit like trying to make the plural of &quot;Cash&quot; a BrandId except
that it does not have one. I think that &quot;Credits&quot; should have some
prefix or suffix. What do you think would work?</span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>David</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;
margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Ronald Duncan
[mailto:[email-masked]]<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, October 24, 2001
11:47 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> [email-masked]<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: New Brand/Brand ID:
Credits</span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Personally, I dislike
substituting 'at' for the @ and prefer to just drop the @.&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>This has evolved into a
standard procedure since we currently have approximately 350 @ branded
companies.&nbsp; In all cases we drop the @ and just use the name for the
domain name, phone directory and other systems and the @ comes back in for
email addresses.</span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>We would prefer to use
just 'credits' and should another company wish to use a brand based on
'credits' they could add a suffix or prefix to distinguish the entries.</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Regards -- Ronald</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;
margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Burdett, David
[mailto:[email-masked]]<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 24 October 2001 18:02<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> 'Ronald Duncan';
[email-masked]<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: New Brand/Brand ID:
Credits</span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Ronald</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>How about a
Brand Id of &quot;AtCredits&quot; as it sounds like your real brand name
&quot;@Credits&quot; yet should avoid all the problems of using the
&quot;@&quot; (e.g. in certificates) and would avoid the confusion of using
&quot;Credits&quot; which is too general a name in my view.</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Regards</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>David Burdett</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>From: Ronald Duncan [<a href="mailto:[email-masked]">mailto:[email-masked]</a>]</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 12:42 AM</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>To: [email-masked]</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]></span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Thanks for
the comments.</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'> </span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>The reason
for applying for a BrandId of credits vs @credits (which is the</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>brand we use and is our trademark) is the number of systems that
have</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>problems with the @ symbol as you discovered with the search
engines.</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'> </span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>E.G. Our
secure certificate is in the name of 'at UK PLC' because a bug in</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>the verisign software that causes it to crash if there is an @ or
other</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>unusual characters in the name.</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Hence our
general policy of dropping the @ where it is going to be used in</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>systems and might cause interoperability problems in the future.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>You are right
that the use of descriptive names is a two edged sword.&nbsp; E.g.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>@UK PLC has significant problems with search engines since both UK
and PLC</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>are common and the combination is non unique.&nbsp; This is
combined with the</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>problems associated with the @ symbol which is generally dropped.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>--</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>Regards&nbsp; --&nbsp; [email-masked] <a
href="http://www.ukplc.net" target="_blank">http://www.ukplc.net</a></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>+44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Mobile 07973 754
817&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Fax 0118 963 7350</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>@UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England </span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]></span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>From: Chris Smith [<a href="mailto:[email-masked]">mailto:[email-masked]</a>]</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>Sent: 24 October 2001 07:34</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>To: [email-masked]; Ronald Duncan</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>Subject: Re: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;
margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]></span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Given that
the company holding the brand</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>is @Credits PLC, wouldn't it make more</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>sense to apply for the BrandId of &quot;@Credits&quot; ?</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Keep in mind
that - as far as I know - the</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>assignment of a BrandId under IOTP confers</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>no standing of any kind. It's just a keyword</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>used for matching, not a trademark registration.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>Users won't ever see it - they will see the</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>BrandName.</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'>
</span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Not only
that, it's going to make you hard</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>to find. Standard search engines don't seem</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>to locate you when I search on @UK PLC,</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>and searching on @Credits acts like the @</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>isn't even there.</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>It might seem
like a cool idea to have</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:
black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>common words as brands, but it doesn't</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>always work well. My experience is just</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>the opposite - look at my last name.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>It does not make me easier to find - it</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>makes me much harder to find, even for</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>people who know where to look.</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>...Chris
Smith</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'> </span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;
margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]></span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>On Oct 23,
2001 at 10:40pm, Ronald Duncan wrote:</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>&gt; We would
like to apply for the brand ID 'Credits' for our Internet</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>Currency</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'>
<br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>&gt; 'Credits'</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>&gt;</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>&gt; The ultimate holding company is @UK PLC <a
href="http://www.uk-plc.net" target="_blank">http://www.uk-plc.net</a>.&nbsp;
The</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>&gt; subsidiary holding the brand is @Credits PLC.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>&gt;</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>&gt; Thank you.</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>&gt;</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>&gt; --</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>&gt; Regards&nbsp; --&nbsp; [email-masked] <a
href="http://www.ukplc.net" target="_blank">http://www.ukplc.net</a></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>&gt; +44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Mobile
07973 754 817&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Fax 0118 963 7350</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>&gt; @UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN,
England</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'> </span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>----------------------------------------------------------------------</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>Chris
Smith&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>

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Content-return: allowed
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 13:59:33 -0700
From: "Burdett, David" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits
To: 'Ronald Duncan' <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--Boundary_(ID_3/XRVpI4sBniy16/K4o6ew)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Ronald
 
I think that "Credits" is too general a term (what do other people think?).
It's a bit like trying to make the plural of "Cash" a BrandId except that it
does not have one. I think that "Credits" should have some prefix or suffix.
What do you think would work?
 
David

-----Original Message-----
From: Ronald Duncan [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 11:47 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits

Personally, I dislike substituting 'at' for the @ and prefer to just drop
the @. 
 
This has evolved into a standard procedure since we currently have
approximately 350 @ branded companies.  In all cases we drop the @ and just
use the name for the domain name, phone directory and other systems and the
@ comes back in for email addresses.
 
We would prefer to use just 'credits' and should another company wish to use
a brand based on 'credits' they could add a suffix or prefix to distinguish
the entries.
 
Regards -- Ronald

-----Original Message-----
From: Burdett, David [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: 24 October 2001 18:02
To: 'Ronald Duncan'; [email-masked]
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits

Ronald 

How about a Brand Id of "AtCredits" as it sounds like your real brand name
"@Credits" yet should avoid all the problems of using the "@" (e.g. in
certificates) and would avoid the confusion of using "Credits" which is too
general a name in my view.

Regards 

David Burdett 

-----Original Message----- 
From: Ronald Duncan [ mailto:[email-masked]
<mailto:[email-masked]> ] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 12:42 AM 
To: [email-masked] 
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits 

Thanks for the comments. 

The reason for applying for a BrandId of credits vs @credits (which is the 
brand we use and is our trademark) is the number of systems that have 
problems with the @ symbol as you discovered with the search engines. 

E.G. Our secure certificate is in the name of 'at UK PLC' because a bug in 
the verisign software that causes it to crash if there is an @ or other 
unusual characters in the name. 

Hence our general policy of dropping the @ where it is going to be used in 
systems and might cause interoperability problems in the future. 

You are right that the use of descriptive names is a two edged sword.  E.g. 
@UK PLC has significant problems with search engines since both UK and PLC 
are common and the combination is non unique.  This is combined with the 
problems associated with the @ symbol which is generally dropped. 

-- 
Regards  --  [email-masked] http://www.ukplc.net
<http://www.ukplc.net>  
+44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000     Mobile 07973 754 817     Fax 0118 963 7350 
@UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England 

-----Original Message----- 
From: Chris Smith [ mailto:[email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]> ] 
Sent: 24 October 2001 07:34 
To: [email-masked]; Ronald Duncan 
Subject: Re: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits 

Given that the company holding the brand 
is @Credits PLC, wouldn't it make more 
sense to apply for the BrandId of "@Credits" ? 

Keep in mind that - as far as I know - the 
assignment of a BrandId under IOTP confers 
no standing of any kind. It's just a keyword 
used for matching, not a trademark registration. 
Users won't ever see it - they will see the 
BrandName. 

Not only that, it's going to make you hard 
to find. Standard search engines don't seem 
to locate you when I search on @UK PLC, 
and searching on @Credits acts like the @ 
isn't even there. 

It might seem like a cool idea to have 
common words as brands, but it doesn't 
always work well. My experience is just 
the opposite - look at my last name. 
It does not make me easier to find - it 
makes me much harder to find, even for 
people who know where to look. 

...Chris Smith 

On Oct 23, 2001 at 10:40pm, Ronald Duncan wrote: 

> We would like to apply for the brand ID 'Credits' for our Internet 
Currency 
> 'Credits' 
> 
> The ultimate holding company is @UK PLC http://www.uk-plc.net
<http://www.uk-plc.net> .  The 
> subsidiary holding the brand is @Credits PLC. 
> 
> Thank you. 
> 
> -- 
> Regards  --  [email-masked] http://www.ukplc.net
<http://www.ukplc.net>  
> +44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000     Mobile 07973 754 817     Fax 0118 963 7350 
> @UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England 

---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Chris Smith                                       <[email-masked]> 

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<TITLE>RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits</TITLE>

<META content="MSHTML 5.00.3315.2870" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=138545420-24102001>Ronald</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=138545420-24102001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=138545420-24102001>I 
think that "Credits" is too general a term (what do other people think?). It's a 
bit like trying to make the plural of "Cash" a BrandId except that it does not 
have one. I think that "Credits" should have some prefix or suffix. What do you 
think would work?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=138545420-24102001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=138545420-24102001>David</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ronald Duncan 
  [mailto:[email-masked]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 24, 2001 
  11:47 AM<BR><B>To:</B> [email-masked]<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: New 
  Brand/Brand ID: Credits<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
  <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  class=822312218-24102001>Personally, I dislike substituting 'at' for the @ and 
  prefer to just drop the @.&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  class=822312218-24102001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=822312218-24102001>This 
  has evolved into a standard procedure since we currently have approximately 
  350 @ branded companies.&nbsp; In all cases we drop the @ and just use the 
  name for the domain name, phone directory and other systems and the @ comes 
  back in for email addresses.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  class=822312218-24102001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=822312218-24102001>We 
  would prefer to use just 'credits' and should another company wish to use a 
  brand based on 'credits' they could add a suffix or prefix to distinguish the 
  entries.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  class=822312218-24102001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  class=822312218-24102001>Regards -- Ronald</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma 
    size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Burdett, David 
    [mailto:[email-masked]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> 24 October 2001 
    18:02<BR><B>To:</B> 'Ronald Duncan'; 
    [email-masked]<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: New Brand/Brand ID: 
    Credits<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
    <P><FONT size=2>Ronald</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>How about a Brand Id of "AtCredits" as it sounds like your 
    real brand name "@Credits" yet should avoid all the problems of using the 
    "@" (e.g. in certificates) and would avoid the confusion of using "Credits" 
    which is too general a name in my view.</FONT></P>
    <P><FONT size=2>Regards</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>David Burdett</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>From: 
    Ronald Duncan [<A 
    href="mailto:[email-masked]">mailto:[email-masked]</A>]</FONT> 
    <BR><FONT size=2>Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 12:42 AM</FONT> <BR><FONT 
    size=2>To: [email-masked]</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Subject: RE: 
    New Brand/Brand ID: Credits</FONT> </P><BR>
    <P><FONT size=2>Thanks for the comments.</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>The reason for applying for a BrandId of credits vs @credits 
    (which is the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>brand we use and is our trademark) is 
    the number of systems that have</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>problems with the @ 
    symbol as you discovered with the search engines.</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>E.G. Our secure certificate is in the name of 'at UK PLC' 
    because a bug in</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>the verisign software that causes 
    it to crash if there is an @ or other</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>unusual 
    characters in the name.</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>Hence our general policy of dropping the @ where it is going 
    to be used in</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>systems and might cause 
    interoperability problems in the future.</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>You are right that the use of descriptive names is a two 
    edged sword.&nbsp; E.g.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>@UK PLC has significant 
    problems with search engines since both UK and PLC</FONT> <BR><FONT 
    size=2>are common and the combination is non unique.&nbsp; This is combined 
    with the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>problems associated with the @ symbol which 
    is generally dropped.</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>--</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Regards&nbsp; --&nbsp; 
    [email-masked] <A href="http://www.ukplc.net" 
    target=_blank>http://www.ukplc.net</A></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>+44 (0) Tel 
    0118 963 7000&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Mobile 07973 754 
    817&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Fax 0118 963 7350</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>@UK 
    PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England 
</FONT></P><BR>
    <P><FONT size=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>From: 
    Chris Smith [<A 
    href="mailto:[email-masked]">mailto:[email-masked]</A>]</FONT> 
    <BR><FONT size=2>Sent: 24 October 2001 07:34</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>To: 
    [email-masked]; Ronald Duncan</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Subject: 
    Re: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits</FONT> </P><BR><BR>
    <P><FONT size=2>Given that the company holding the brand</FONT> <BR><FONT 
    size=2>is @Credits PLC, wouldn't it make more</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>sense 
    to apply for the BrandId of "@Credits" ?</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>Keep in mind that - as far as I know - the</FONT> <BR><FONT 
    size=2>assignment of a BrandId under IOTP confers</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>no 
    standing of any kind. It's just a keyword</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>used for 
    matching, not a trademark registration.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Users won't 
    ever see it - they will see the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>BrandName.</FONT> 
    </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>Not only that, it's going to make you hard</FONT> <BR><FONT 
    size=2>to find. Standard search engines don't seem</FONT> <BR><FONT 
    size=2>to locate you when I search on @UK PLC,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>and 
    searching on @Credits acts like the @</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>isn't even 
    there.</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>It might seem like a cool idea to have</FONT> <BR><FONT 
    size=2>common words as brands, but it doesn't</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>always 
    work well. My experience is just</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>the opposite - look 
    at my last name.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>It does not make me easier to find 
    - it</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>makes me much harder to find, even for</FONT> 
    <BR><FONT size=2>people who know where to look.</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>...Chris Smith</FONT> </P><BR><BR>
    <P><FONT size=2>On Oct 23, 2001 at 10:40pm, Ronald Duncan wrote:</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>&gt; We would like to apply for the brand ID 'Credits' for 
    our Internet</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Currency</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
    'Credits'</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; The 
    ultimate holding company is @UK PLC <A href="http://www.uk-plc.net" 
    target=_blank>http://www.uk-plc.net</A>.&nbsp; The</FONT> <BR><FONT 
    size=2>&gt; subsidiary holding the brand is @Credits PLC.</FONT> <BR><FONT 
    size=2>&gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; Thank you.</FONT> <BR><FONT 
    size=2>&gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; --</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
    Regards&nbsp; --&nbsp; [email-masked] <A 
    href="http://www.ukplc.net" target=_blank>http://www.ukplc.net</A></FONT> 
    <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; +44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
    Mobile 07973 754 817&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Fax 0118 963 7350</FONT> 
    <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; @UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 
    8NN, England</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT 
    size=2>----------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT> 
    <BR><FONT size=2>Chris 
    Smith&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
    &lt;[email-masked]&gt;</FONT> </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_3/XRVpI4sBniy16/K4o6ew)--

Content-return: allowed
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 19:47:04 +0100
From: Ronald Duncan <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits
To: [email-masked]

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

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Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Personally, I dislike substituting 'at' for the @ and prefer to just drop
the @. 
 
This has evolved into a standard procedure since we currently have
approximately 350 @ branded companies.  In all cases we drop the @ and just
use the name for the domain name, phone directory and other systems and the
@ comes back in for email addresses.
 
We would prefer to use just 'credits' and should another company wish to use
a brand based on 'credits' they could add a suffix or prefix to distinguish
the entries.
 
Regards -- Ronald

-----Original Message-----
From: Burdett, David [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: 24 October 2001 18:02
To: 'Ronald Duncan'; [email-masked]
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits

Ronald 

How about a Brand Id of "AtCredits" as it sounds like your real brand name
"@Credits" yet should avoid all the problems of using the "@" (e.g. in
certificates) and would avoid the confusion of using "Credits" which is too
general a name in my view.

Regards 

David Burdett 

-----Original Message----- 
From: Ronald Duncan [ mailto:[email-masked]
<mailto:[email-masked]> ] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 12:42 AM 
To: [email-masked] 
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits 

Thanks for the comments. 

The reason for applying for a BrandId of credits vs @credits (which is the 
brand we use and is our trademark) is the number of systems that have 
problems with the @ symbol as you discovered with the search engines. 

E.G. Our secure certificate is in the name of 'at UK PLC' because a bug in 
the verisign software that causes it to crash if there is an @ or other 
unusual characters in the name. 

Hence our general policy of dropping the @ where it is going to be used in 
systems and might cause interoperability problems in the future. 

You are right that the use of descriptive names is a two edged sword.  E.g. 
@UK PLC has significant problems with search engines since both UK and PLC 
are common and the combination is non unique.  This is combined with the 
problems associated with the @ symbol which is generally dropped. 

-- 
Regards  --  [email-masked] http://www.ukplc.net
<http://www.ukplc.net>  
+44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000     Mobile 07973 754 817     Fax 0118 963 7350 
@UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England 

-----Original Message----- 
From: Chris Smith [ mailto:[email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]> ] 
Sent: 24 October 2001 07:34 
To: [email-masked]; Ronald Duncan 
Subject: Re: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits 

Given that the company holding the brand 
is @Credits PLC, wouldn't it make more 
sense to apply for the BrandId of "@Credits" ? 

Keep in mind that - as far as I know - the 
assignment of a BrandId under IOTP confers 
no standing of any kind. It's just a keyword 
used for matching, not a trademark registration. 
Users won't ever see it - they will see the 
BrandName. 

Not only that, it's going to make you hard 
to find. Standard search engines don't seem 
to locate you when I search on @UK PLC, 
and searching on @Credits acts like the @ 
isn't even there. 

It might seem like a cool idea to have 
common words as brands, but it doesn't 
always work well. My experience is just 
the opposite - look at my last name. 
It does not make me easier to find - it 
makes me much harder to find, even for 
people who know where to look. 

...Chris Smith 

On Oct 23, 2001 at 10:40pm, Ronald Duncan wrote: 

> We would like to apply for the brand ID 'Credits' for our Internet 
Currency 
> 'Credits' 
> 
> The ultimate holding company is @UK PLC http://www.uk-plc.net
<http://www.uk-plc.net> .  The 
> subsidiary holding the brand is @Credits PLC. 
> 
> Thank you. 
> 
> -- 
> Regards  --  [email-masked] http://www.ukplc.net
<http://www.ukplc.net>  
> +44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000     Mobile 07973 754 817     Fax 0118 963 7350 
> @UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England 

---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Chris Smith                                       <[email-masked]> 

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<TITLE>RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits</TITLE>

<META content="MSHTML 5.00.3315.2870" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=822312218-24102001>Personally, I dislike substituting 'at' for the @ and 
prefer to just drop the @.&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=822312218-24102001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=822312218-24102001>This 
has evolved into a standard procedure since we currently have approximately 350 
@ branded companies.&nbsp; In all cases we drop the @ and just use the name for 
the domain name, phone directory and other systems and the @ comes back in for 
email addresses.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=822312218-24102001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=822312218-24102001>We 
would prefer to use just 'credits' and should another company wish to use a 
brand based on 'credits' they could add a suffix or prefix to distinguish the 
entries.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=822312218-24102001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=822312218-24102001>Regards -- Ronald</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Burdett, David 
  [mailto:[email-masked]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> 24 October 2001 
  18:02<BR><B>To:</B> 'Ronald Duncan'; 
  [email-masked]<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: New Brand/Brand ID: 
  Credits<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
  <P><FONT size=2>Ronald</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>How about a Brand Id of "AtCredits" as it sounds like your 
  real brand name "@Credits" yet should avoid all the problems of using the "@" 
  (e.g. in certificates) and would avoid the confusion of using "Credits" which 
  is too general a name in my view.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT size=2>Regards</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>David Burdett</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>From: 
  Ronald Duncan [<A 
  href="mailto:[email-masked]">mailto:[email-masked]</A>]</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 12:42 AM</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>To: [email-masked]</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Subject: RE: 
  New Brand/Brand ID: Credits</FONT> </P><BR>
  <P><FONT size=2>Thanks for the comments.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>The reason for applying for a BrandId of credits vs @credits 
  (which is the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>brand we use and is our trademark) is 
  the number of systems that have</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>problems with the @ 
  symbol as you discovered with the search engines.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>E.G. Our secure certificate is in the name of 'at UK PLC' 
  because a bug in</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>the verisign software that causes it 
  to crash if there is an @ or other</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>unusual characters 
  in the name.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>Hence our general policy of dropping the @ where it is going 
  to be used in</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>systems and might cause interoperability 
  problems in the future.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>You are right that the use of descriptive names is a two edged 
  sword.&nbsp; E.g.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>@UK PLC has significant problems 
  with search engines since both UK and PLC</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>are common 
  and the combination is non unique.&nbsp; This is combined with the</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>problems associated with the @ symbol which is generally 
  dropped.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>--</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Regards&nbsp; --&nbsp; 
  [email-masked] <A href="http://www.ukplc.net" 
  target=_blank>http://www.ukplc.net</A></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>+44 (0) Tel 
  0118 963 7000&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Mobile 07973 754 
  817&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Fax 0118 963 7350</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>@UK PLC, 
  5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England </FONT></P><BR>
  <P><FONT size=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>From: Chris 
  Smith [<A 
  href="mailto:[email-masked]">mailto:[email-masked]</A>]</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>Sent: 24 October 2001 07:34</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>To: 
  [email-masked]; Ronald Duncan</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Subject: 
  Re: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits</FONT> </P><BR><BR>
  <P><FONT size=2>Given that the company holding the brand</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>is @Credits PLC, wouldn't it make more</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>sense to 
  apply for the BrandId of "@Credits" ?</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>Keep in mind that - as far as I know - the</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>assignment of a BrandId under IOTP confers</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>no 
  standing of any kind. It's just a keyword</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>used for 
  matching, not a trademark registration.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Users won't 
  ever see it - they will see the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>BrandName.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>Not only that, it's going to make you hard</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>to find. Standard search engines don't seem</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>to 
  locate you when I search on @UK PLC,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>and searching on 
  @Credits acts like the @</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>isn't even there.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>It might seem like a cool idea to have</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>common words as brands, but it doesn't</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>always 
  work well. My experience is just</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>the opposite - look 
  at my last name.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>It does not make me easier to find - 
  it</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>makes me much harder to find, even for</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>people who know where to look.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>...Chris Smith</FONT> </P><BR><BR>
  <P><FONT size=2>On Oct 23, 2001 at 10:40pm, Ronald Duncan wrote:</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>&gt; We would like to apply for the brand ID 'Credits' for our 
  Internet</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Currency</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
  'Credits'</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; The 
  ultimate holding company is @UK PLC <A href="http://www.uk-plc.net" 
  target=_blank>http://www.uk-plc.net</A>.&nbsp; The</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt; subsidiary holding the brand is @Credits PLC.</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; Thank you.</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; --</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
  Regards&nbsp; --&nbsp; [email-masked] <A href="http://www.ukplc.net" 
  target=_blank>http://www.ukplc.net</A></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; +44 (0) 
  Tel 0118 963 7000&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Mobile 07973 754 
  817&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Fax 0118 963 7350</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; @UK 
  PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT 
  size=2>----------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>Chris 
  Smith&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  &lt;[email-masked]&gt;</FONT> </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_OU3j8/i1ln7irhiLtpUWiA)--

Content-return: allowed
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 10:02:12 -0700
From: "Burdett, David" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits
To: 'Ronald Duncan' <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--Boundary_(ID_TAH51fGSp+UCf7aWVNRnDQ)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Ronald

How about a Brand Id of "AtCredits" as it sounds like your real brand name
"@Credits" yet should avoid all the problems of using the "@" (e.g. in
certificates) and would avoid the confusion of using "Credits" which is too
general a name in my view.

Regards

David Burdett

-----Original Message-----
From: Ronald Duncan [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 12:42 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits

Thanks for the comments.

The reason for applying for a BrandId of credits vs @credits (which is the
brand we use and is our trademark) is the number of systems that have
problems with the @ symbol as you discovered with the search engines.

E.G. Our secure certificate is in the name of 'at UK PLC' because a bug in
the verisign software that causes it to crash if there is an @ or other
unusual characters in the name.

Hence our general policy of dropping the @ where it is going to be used in
systems and might cause interoperability problems in the future.

You are right that the use of descriptive names is a two edged sword.  E.g.
@UK PLC has significant problems with search engines since both UK and PLC
are common and the combination is non unique.  This is combined with the
problems associated with the @ symbol which is generally dropped.

--
Regards  --  [email-masked] http://www.ukplc.net
+44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000     Mobile 07973 754 817     Fax 0118 963 7350
@UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England 

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Smith [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: 24 October 2001 07:34
To: [email-masked]; Ronald Duncan
Subject: Re: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits

Given that the company holding the brand
is @Credits PLC, wouldn't it make more
sense to apply for the BrandId of "@Credits" ?

Keep in mind that - as far as I know - the
assignment of a BrandId under IOTP confers
no standing of any kind. It's just a keyword
used for matching, not a trademark registration.
Users won't ever see it - they will see the
BrandName.

Not only that, it's going to make you hard
to find. Standard search engines don't seem
to locate you when I search on @UK PLC,
and searching on @Credits acts like the @
isn't even there.

It might seem like a cool idea to have
common words as brands, but it doesn't
always work well. My experience is just
the opposite - look at my last name.
It does not make me easier to find - it
makes me much harder to find, even for
people who know where to look.

...Chris Smith

On Oct 23, 2001 at 10:40pm, Ronald Duncan wrote:

> We would like to apply for the brand ID 'Credits' for our Internet
Currency
> 'Credits'
>
> The ultimate holding company is @UK PLC http://www.uk-plc.net.  The
> subsidiary holding the brand is @Credits PLC.
>
> Thank you.
>
> --
> Regards  --  [email-masked] http://www.ukplc.net
> +44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000     Mobile 07973 754 817     Fax 0118 963 7350
> @UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Smith                                       <[email-masked]>

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-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.26=
53.12">
<TITLE>RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Ronald</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>How about a Brand Id of &quot;AtCredits&quot; as it=
 sounds like your real brand name &quot;@Credits&quot; yet should avo=
id all the problems of using the &quot;@&quot; (e.g. in certificates)=
 and would avoid the confusion of using &quot;Credits&quot; which is =
too general a name in my view.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Regards</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>David Burdett</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Ronald Duncan [<A HREF=3D"mailto:Ronald.Dunc=
[email-masked]">mailto:[email-masked]</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 12:42 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: [email-masked]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Thanks for the comments.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>The reason for applying for a BrandId of credits vs=
 @credits (which is the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>brand we use and is our trademark) is the number o=
f systems that have</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>problems with the @ symbol as you discovered with =
the search engines.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>E.G. Our secure certificate is in the name of 'at U=
K PLC' because a bug in</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>the verisign software that causes it to crash if t=
here is an @ or other</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>unusual characters in the name.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hence our general policy of dropping the @ where it=
 is going to be used in</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>systems and might cause interoperability problems =
in the future.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>You are right that the use of descriptive names is =
a two edged sword.&nbsp; E.g.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>@UK PLC has significant problems with search engin=
es since both UK and PLC</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>are common and the combination is non unique.&nbsp=
; This is combined with the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>problems associated with the @ symbol which is gen=
erally dropped.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>--</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Regards&nbsp; --&nbsp; [email-masked] <A =
HREF=3D"http://www.ukplc.net" TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.ukplc.net<=
/A></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>+44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Mobile 07973 754 817&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Fax 0118 963 7350</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>@UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, R=
G7 8NN, England </FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Chris Smith [<A HREF=3D"mailto:smith@interlo=
g.com">mailto:[email-masked]</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: 24 October 2001 07:34</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: [email-masked]; Ronald Duncan</FO=
NT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: Re: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Given that the company holding the brand</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>is @Credits PLC, wouldn't it make more</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>sense to apply for the BrandId of &quot;@Credits&q=
uot; ?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Keep in mind that - as far as I know - the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>assignment of a BrandId under IOTP confers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>no standing of any kind. It's just a keyword</FONT=
>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>used for matching, not a trademark registration.</=
FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Users won't ever see it - they will see the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>BrandName.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Not only that, it's going to make you hard</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>to find. Standard search engines don't seem</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>to locate you when I search on @UK PLC,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>and searching on @Credits acts like the @</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>isn't even there.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>It might seem like a cool idea to have</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>common words as brands, but it doesn't</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>always work well. My experience is just</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>the opposite - look at my last name.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>It does not make me easier to find - it</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>makes me much harder to find, even for</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>people who know where to look.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>...Chris Smith</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>On Oct 23, 2001 at 10:40pm, Ronald Duncan wrote:</F=
ONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; We would like to apply for the brand ID 'Credi=
ts' for our Internet</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Currency</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; 'Credits'</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; The ultimate holding company is @UK PLC <A HR=
EF=3D"http://www.uk-plc.net" TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.uk-plc.net<=
/A>.&nbsp; The</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; subsidiary holding the brand is @Credits PLC.=
</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Thank you.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; --</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Regards&nbsp; --&nbsp; [email-masked]=
t <A HREF=3D"http://www.ukplc.net" TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.ukplc=
.net</A></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; +44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; Mobile 07973 754 817&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Fax 0118 963 7350</=
FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; @UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Readi=
ng, RG7 8NN, England</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>---------------------------------------------------=
-------------------</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Chris Smith&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;smith@interlo=
g.com&gt;</FONT>
</P>

</BODY>
</HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_TAH51fGSp+UCf7aWVNRnDQ)--

Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 09:30:06 -0700
From: "Lewis, Tony" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits
To: [email-masked]

On Wednesday, October 24, 2001 12:41 AM, Ronald Duncan wrote:

> E.G. Our secure certificate is in the name of 'at UK PLC' because a bug 
> in the verisign software that causes it to crash if there is an @ or 
> other unusual characters in the name.

There may be a bug in the VeriSign software that causes it to crash if the
Subject name has an "@", but even if that bug were fixed, you would not be
able to include the "@" in your certificate. Names in X.509 certificates
must either be a subset of ASCII called PrintableString or Unicode. The
special characters available in PrintableString are "'()+,--./:=?".

Tony

Content-return: allowed
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 08:41:45 +0100
From: Ronald Duncan <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits
To: [email-masked]

Thanks for the comments.

The reason for applying for a BrandId of credits vs @credits (which is the
brand we use and is our trademark) is the number of systems that have
problems with the @ symbol as you discovered with the search engines.

E.G. Our secure certificate is in the name of 'at UK PLC' because a bug in
the verisign software that causes it to crash if there is an @ or other
unusual characters in the name.

Hence our general policy of dropping the @ where it is going to be used in
systems and might cause interoperability problems in the future.

You are right that the use of descriptive names is a two edged sword.  E.g.
@UK PLC has significant problems with search engines since both UK and PLC
are common and the combination is non unique.  This is combined with the
problems associated with the @ symbol which is generally dropped.

--
Regards  --  [email-masked] http://www.ukplc.net
+44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000     Mobile 07973 754 817     Fax 0118 963 7350
@UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England 

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Smith [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: 24 October 2001 07:34
To: [email-masked]; Ronald Duncan
Subject: Re: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits

Given that the company holding the brand
is @Credits PLC, wouldn't it make more
sense to apply for the BrandId of "@Credits" ?

Keep in mind that - as far as I know - the
assignment of a BrandId under IOTP confers
no standing of any kind. It's just a keyword
used for matching, not a trademark registration.
Users won't ever see it - they will see the
BrandName.

Not only that, it's going to make you hard
to find. Standard search engines don't seem
to locate you when I search on @UK PLC,
and searching on @Credits acts like the @
isn't even there.

It might seem like a cool idea to have
common words as brands, but it doesn't
always work well. My experience is just
the opposite - look at my last name.
It does not make me easier to find - it
makes me much harder to find, even for
people who know where to look.

...Chris Smith

On Oct 23, 2001 at 10:40pm, Ronald Duncan wrote:

> We would like to apply for the brand ID 'Credits' for our Internet
Currency
> 'Credits'
>
> The ultimate holding company is @UK PLC http://www.uk-plc.net.  The
> subsidiary holding the brand is @Credits PLC.
>
> Thank you.
>
> --
> Regards  --  [email-masked] http://www.ukplc.net
> +44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000     Mobile 07973 754 817     Fax 0118 963 7350
> @UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Smith                                       <[email-masked]>

Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 02:33:57 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
From: Chris Smith <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits
To: [email-masked], Ronald Duncan <[email-masked]>

Given that the company holding the brand
is @Credits PLC, wouldn't it make more
sense to apply for the BrandId of "@Credits" ?

Keep in mind that - as far as I know - the
assignment of a BrandId under IOTP confers
no standing of any kind. It's just a keyword
used for matching, not a trademark registration.
Users won't ever see it - they will see the
BrandName.

Not only that, it's going to make you hard
to find. Standard search engines don't seem
to locate you when I search on @UK PLC,
and searching on @Credits acts like the @
isn't even there.

It might seem like a cool idea to have
common words as brands, but it doesn't
always work well. My experience is just
the opposite - look at my last name.
It does not make me easier to find - it
makes me much harder to find, even for
people who know where to look.

...Chris Smith

On Oct 23, 2001 at 10:40pm, Ronald Duncan wrote:

> We would like to apply for the brand ID 'Credits' for our Internet Currency
> 'Credits'
>
> The ultimate holding company is @UK PLC http://www.uk-plc.net.  The
> subsidiary holding the brand is @Credits PLC.
>
> Thank you.
>
> --
> Regards  --  [email-masked] http://www.ukplc.net
> +44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000     Mobile 07973 754 817     Fax 0118 963 7350
> @UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Smith                                       <[email-masked]>

Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 16:30:43 -0700
From: "Lewis, Tony" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits
To: [email-masked]

"Credits" sounds like a generic term to me. Do we have any restrictions on
what can be used for a Brand ID?

Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: Ronald Duncan [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 2:41 PM
To: [email-masked]'
Subject: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits

We would like to apply for the brand ID 'Credits' for our Internet Currency
'Credits'

The ultimate holding company is @UK PLC http://www.uk-plc.net.  The
subsidiary holding the brand is @Credits PLC.

Thank you.

--
Regards  --  [email-masked] http://www.ukplc.net
+44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000     Mobile 07973 754 817     Fax 0118 963 7350
@UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England 

Content-return: allowed
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 22:40:50 +0100
From: Ronald Duncan <[email-masked]>
Subject: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits
To: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>

We would like to apply for the brand ID 'Credits' for our Internet Currency
'Credits'

The ultimate holding company is @UK PLC http://www.uk-plc.net.  The
subsidiary holding the brand is @Credits PLC.

Thank you.

--
Regards  --  [email-masked] http://www.ukplc.net
+44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000     Mobile 07973 754 817     Fax 0118 963 7350
@UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England 

Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 07:10:34 -0400
From: [email-masked]
Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-trade-ecml2-spec-02.txt
Sender: [email-masked]
To: IETF-Announce: ;
Cc: [email-masked]
Reply-to: [email-masked]

--Boundary_(ID_P/AwpMTEcymmnc6q+SSjAA)
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Internet Open Trading Protocol Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Electronic Commerce Modeling Language (ECML):Version 2
                          Specification
	Author(s)	: J. Parsons
	Filename	: draft-ietf-trade-ecml2-spec-02.txt
	Pages		: 22
	Date		: 18-Oct-01
	
Electronic commerce frequently requires a substantial exchange of
information in order to complete a purchase or other transaction,
especially the first time the parties communicate. A standard set of
hierarchicly organized payment related information fields in an XML
syntax are defined as the second version of an Electronic Commerce
Modeling Language (ECML) so that this task can be more easily
automated, for example by wallet software

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-trade-ecml2-spec-02.txt

To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to 
ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username
"anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in,
type "cd internet-drafts" and then
	"get draft-ietf-trade-ecml2-spec-02.txt".

A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html 
or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt

Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.

Send a message to:
	[email-masked].
In the body type:
	"FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-trade-ecml2-spec-02.txt".
	
NOTE:	The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
	MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility.  To use this
	feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
	command.  To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or
	a MIME-compliant mail reader.  Different MIME-compliant mail readers
	exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
	"multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split
	up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
	how to manipulate these messages.

Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
Internet-Draft.

--Boundary_(ID_P/AwpMTEcymmnc6q+SSjAA)
Content-type: multipart/alternative;
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Content-Type: text/plain
Content-ID:	<[email-masked]>

ENCODING mime
FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-trade-ecml2-spec-02.txt

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Content-Type: text/plain
Content-ID:	<[email-masked]>

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--Boundary_(ID_P/AwpMTEcymmnc6q+SSjAA)--

Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 15:09:52 -0700
From: Ron Ehli <[email-masked]>
Subject: BrandID
To: [email-masked]
Importance: Normal

We would like to submit our request for the following BrandID:

BrandID: EZPay
Company: ITI Services, Inc.
Email: [email-masked]
Address: 1121 Court C, Suite 202
Broadway Plaza
Tacoma, WA 98402
USA
Voice: 253-284-0320
Fax: 253-284-0324

Date published: October 12th 2001

Thank you
Ron Ehli
CEO

Content-return: allowed
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 16:37:55 -0400
From: Eastlake III Donald-LDE008 <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: New Brand/BrandID: "paybox"
To: "'Taglang, Guillaume'" <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]

Hi,

More or less correct.  If no objection has been posted on this list w=
ithin
3 week, you can then send a message to [email-masked] referencing your
posting below and referencing the section of RFC 2801 or the IANA web=
 page
which specifies this procedure, and then IANA should register your Br=
andID
and post it by updating their database (and presumably the web page a=
t
<http://www.iana.org/assignments/iotp-codes>).

Thanks,
Donald

-----Original Message-----
=46rom: Taglang, Guillaume [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 12:57 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: New Brand/BrandID: "paybox"

Hi list,

I do not know the real process for doing this, but it seems that I ju=
st have
to send a mail to this list and wait 3 weeks for a confirmation.

So, my company, paybox.net AG (http://www.paybox.net), would like to =
get the
BrandID 'paybox', if it's not already registered.

Thanks in advance.

Best regards,

  Guillaume

Guillaume Taglang
Product Development and Integration

paybox.net AG  :-)))  =09=09
Am Prime Parc 6   =09=09
65479 Raunheim/Frankfurt
Germany

phone:  +49.6142.407-1210
fax:    +49.6142.407-1201
mobile:=09+49.172.863 19 64

mailto:[email-masked]
________________________________________________________________

The world=B4s first mobile payment service: http://www.paybox.net/
________________________________________________________________

Content-return: allowed
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 18:57:12 +0200
From: "Taglang, Guillaume" <[email-masked]>
Subject: New Brand/BrandID: "paybox"
To: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>

Hi list,

I do not know the real process for doing this, but it seems that I ju=
st have
to send a mail to this list and wait 3 weeks for a confirmation.

So, my company, paybox.net AG (http://www.paybox.net), would like to =
get the
BrandID 'paybox', if it's not already registered.

Thanks in advance.

Best regards,

  Guillaume

Guillaume Taglang
Product Development and Integration

paybox.net AG  :-)))  =09=09
Am Prime Parc 6   =09=09
65479 Raunheim/Frankfurt
Germany

phone:  +49.6142.407-1210
fax:    +49.6142.407-1201
mobile:=09+49.172.863 19 64

mailto:[email-masked]
________________________________________________________________

The world=B4s first mobile payment service: http://www.paybox.net/
________________________________________________________________

Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 12:17:18 -0500
From: "Donald E. Eastlake 3rd" <[email-masked]>
Subject: TRADE WG Meeting, Salt Lake City
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]

Hi,

The TRADE WG Meeting has been tentatively schedule for 0900-1130
Tuesday morning, December 11th, at the next IETF meeting in Salt Lake
city.
<http://www.ietf.org/meetings/IETF-52.html>
This might change but is probably fairly stable.

Please send me any suggestions for agenda items.

Thanks,
Donald

=====================================================================
 Donald E. Eastlake 3rd                      [email-masked]
 155 Beaver Street                                +1 508-634-2066(h)
 Milford, MA 01757 USA                            +1 508-261-5434(w)

Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 23:30:26 +0200
From: Ofer Avineri <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits
To: "Burdett, David" <[email-masked]>, 'Ronald Duncan' <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
Importance: Normal

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--Boundary_(ID_GvGJPsHZb0rDaKVKpSeMsQ)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT

Ronald,

I think “Credits” would be too generic brand to use. I would support David’s
offer to add a distinguished prefix or suffix.

Ofer

-----Original Message-----
From: Burdett, David [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 23:00
To: 'Ronald Duncan'; [email-masked]
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits

Ronald

I think that "Credits" is too general a term (what do other people think?).
It's a bit like trying to make the plural of "Cash" a BrandId except that it
does not have one. I think that "Credits" should have some prefix or suffix.
What do you think would work?

David
-----Original Message-----
From: Ronald Duncan [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 11:47 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits
Personally, I dislike substituting 'at' for the @ and prefer to just drop
the @.

This has evolved into a standard procedure since we currently have
approximately 350 @ branded companies.  In all cases we drop the @ and just
use the name for the domain name, phone directory and other systems and the
@ comes back in for email addresses.

We would prefer to use just 'credits' and should another company wish to use
a brand based on 'credits' they could add a suffix or prefix to distinguish
the entries.

Regards -- Ronald
-----Original Message-----
From: Burdett, David [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: 24 October 2001 18:02
To: 'Ronald Duncan'; [email-masked]
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits
Ronald
How about a Brand Id of "AtCredits" as it sounds like your real brand name
"@Credits" yet should avoid all the problems of using the "@" (e.g. in
certificates) and would avoid the confusion of using "Credits" which is too
general a name in my view.
Regards
David Burdett
-----Original Message-----
From: Ronald Duncan [ mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 12:42 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits

Thanks for the comments.
The reason for applying for a BrandId of credits vs @credits (which is the
brand we use and is our trademark) is the number of systems that have
problems with the @ symbol as you discovered with the search engines.
E.G. Our secure certificate is in the name of 'at UK PLC' because a bug in
the verisign software that causes it to crash if there is an @ or other
unusual characters in the name.
Hence our general policy of dropping the @ where it is going to be used in
systems and might cause interoperability problems in the future.
You are right that the use of descriptive names is a two edged sword.  E.g.
@UK PLC has significant problems with search engines since both UK and PLC
are common and the combination is non unique.  This is combined with the
problems associated with the @ symbol which is generally dropped.
--
Regards  --  [email-masked] http://www.ukplc.net
+44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000     Mobile 07973 754 817     Fax 0118 963 7350
@UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Smith [ mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: 24 October 2001 07:34
To: [email-masked]; Ronald Duncan
Subject: Re: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits

Given that the company holding the brand
is @Credits PLC, wouldn't it make more
sense to apply for the BrandId of "@Credits" ?
Keep in mind that - as far as I know - the
assignment of a BrandId under IOTP confers
no standing of any kind. It's just a keyword
used for matching, not a trademark registration.
Users won't ever see it - they will see the
BrandName.
Not only that, it's going to make you hard
to find. Standard search engines don't seem
to locate you when I search on @UK PLC,
and searching on @Credits acts like the @
isn't even there.
It might seem like a cool idea to have
common words as brands, but it doesn't
always work well. My experience is just
the opposite - look at my last name.
It does not make me easier to find - it
makes me much harder to find, even for
people who know where to look.
...Chris Smith

On Oct 23, 2001 at 10:40pm, Ronald Duncan wrote:
> We would like to apply for the brand ID 'Credits' for our Internet
Currency
> 'Credits'
>
> The ultimate holding company is @UK PLC http://www.uk-plc.net.  The
> subsidiary holding the brand is @Credits PLC.
>
> Thank you.
>
> --
> Regards  --  [email-masked] http://www.ukplc.net
> +44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000     Mobile 07973 754 817     Fax 0118 963 7350
> @UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Smith                                       <[email-masked]>

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<div class=Section1 dir=RTL>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>Ronald,<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>I think &#8220;Credits&#8221; would be too generic brand to use. I would support
David&#8217;s offer to add a distinguished prefix or suffix.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>Ofer<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Burdett, David
[mailto:[email-masked]]<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, October 24, 2001
23:00<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> 'Ronald Duncan';
[email-masked]<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: New Brand/Brand ID:
Credits</span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]></span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Ronald</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>I think
that &quot;Credits&quot; is too general a term (what do other people think?).
It's a bit like trying to make the plural of &quot;Cash&quot; a BrandId except
that it does not have one. I think that &quot;Credits&quot; should have some
prefix or suffix. What do you think would work?</span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>David</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;
margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Ronald Duncan
[mailto:[email-masked]]<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, October 24, 2001
11:47 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> [email-masked]<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: New Brand/Brand ID:
Credits</span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Personally, I dislike
substituting 'at' for the @ and prefer to just drop the @.&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>This has evolved into a
standard procedure since we currently have approximately 350 @ branded
companies.&nbsp; In all cases we drop the @ and just use the name for the
domain name, phone directory and other systems and the @ comes back in for
email addresses.</span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>We would prefer to use
just 'credits' and should another company wish to use a brand based on
'credits' they could add a suffix or prefix to distinguish the entries.</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Regards -- Ronald</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;
margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Burdett, David
[mailto:[email-masked]]<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 24 October 2001 18:02<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> 'Ronald Duncan';
[email-masked]<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: New Brand/Brand ID:
Credits</span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Ronald</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>How about a
Brand Id of &quot;AtCredits&quot; as it sounds like your real brand name
&quot;@Credits&quot; yet should avoid all the problems of using the
&quot;@&quot; (e.g. in certificates) and would avoid the confusion of using
&quot;Credits&quot; which is too general a name in my view.</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Regards</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>David Burdett</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>From: Ronald Duncan [<a href="mailto:[email-masked]">mailto:[email-masked]</a>]</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 12:42 AM</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>To: [email-masked]</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]></span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Thanks for
the comments.</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'> </span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>The reason
for applying for a BrandId of credits vs @credits (which is the</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>brand we use and is our trademark) is the number of systems that
have</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>problems with the @ symbol as you discovered with the search
engines.</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'> </span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>E.G. Our
secure certificate is in the name of 'at UK PLC' because a bug in</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>the verisign software that causes it to crash if there is an @ or
other</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>unusual characters in the name.</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Hence our
general policy of dropping the @ where it is going to be used in</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>systems and might cause interoperability problems in the future.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>You are right
that the use of descriptive names is a two edged sword.&nbsp; E.g.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>@UK PLC has significant problems with search engines since both UK
and PLC</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>are common and the combination is non unique.&nbsp; This is
combined with the</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>problems associated with the @ symbol which is generally dropped.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>--</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>Regards&nbsp; --&nbsp; [email-masked] <a
href="http://www.ukplc.net" target="_blank">http://www.ukplc.net</a></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>+44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Mobile 07973 754
817&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Fax 0118 963 7350</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>@UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England </span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]></span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>From: Chris Smith [<a href="mailto:[email-masked]">mailto:[email-masked]</a>]</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>Sent: 24 October 2001 07:34</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>To: [email-masked]; Ronald Duncan</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>Subject: Re: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;
margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]></span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Given that
the company holding the brand</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>is @Credits PLC, wouldn't it make more</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>sense to apply for the BrandId of &quot;@Credits&quot; ?</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Keep in mind
that - as far as I know - the</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>assignment of a BrandId under IOTP confers</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>no standing of any kind. It's just a keyword</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>used for matching, not a trademark registration.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>Users won't ever see it - they will see the</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>BrandName.</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'>
</span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Not only
that, it's going to make you hard</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>to find. Standard search engines don't seem</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>to locate you when I search on @UK PLC,</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>and searching on @Credits acts like the @</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>isn't even there.</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>It might seem
like a cool idea to have</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:
black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>common words as brands, but it doesn't</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>always work well. My experience is just</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>the opposite - look at my last name.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>It does not make me easier to find - it</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>makes me much harder to find, even for</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>people who know where to look.</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>...Chris
Smith</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'> </span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal dir=LTR style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;
margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]></span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>On Oct 23,
2001 at 10:40pm, Ronald Duncan wrote:</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>&gt; We would
like to apply for the brand ID 'Credits' for our Internet</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>Currency</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'>
<br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>&gt; 'Credits'</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>&gt;</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>&gt; The ultimate holding company is @UK PLC <a
href="http://www.uk-plc.net" target="_blank">http://www.uk-plc.net</a>.&nbsp;
The</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>&gt; subsidiary holding the brand is @Credits PLC.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>&gt;</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>&gt; Thank you.</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>&gt;</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>&gt; --</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>&gt; Regards&nbsp; --&nbsp; [email-masked] <a
href="http://www.ukplc.net" target="_blank">http://www.ukplc.net</a></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>&gt; +44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Mobile
07973 754 817&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Fax 0118 963 7350</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>&gt; @UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN,
England</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'> </span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p dir=LTR style='margin-left:108.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>----------------------------------------------------------------------</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>Chris
Smith&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>

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Content-return: allowed
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 13:59:33 -0700
From: "Burdett, David" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits
To: 'Ronald Duncan' <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--Boundary_(ID_3/XRVpI4sBniy16/K4o6ew)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Ronald
 
I think that "Credits" is too general a term (what do other people think?).
It's a bit like trying to make the plural of "Cash" a BrandId except that it
does not have one. I think that "Credits" should have some prefix or suffix.
What do you think would work?
 
David

-----Original Message-----
From: Ronald Duncan [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 11:47 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits

Personally, I dislike substituting 'at' for the @ and prefer to just drop
the @. 
 
This has evolved into a standard procedure since we currently have
approximately 350 @ branded companies.  In all cases we drop the @ and just
use the name for the domain name, phone directory and other systems and the
@ comes back in for email addresses.
 
We would prefer to use just 'credits' and should another company wish to use
a brand based on 'credits' they could add a suffix or prefix to distinguish
the entries.
 
Regards -- Ronald

-----Original Message-----
From: Burdett, David [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: 24 October 2001 18:02
To: 'Ronald Duncan'; [email-masked]
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits

Ronald 

How about a Brand Id of "AtCredits" as it sounds like your real brand name
"@Credits" yet should avoid all the problems of using the "@" (e.g. in
certificates) and would avoid the confusion of using "Credits" which is too
general a name in my view.

Regards 

David Burdett 

-----Original Message----- 
From: Ronald Duncan [ mailto:[email-masked]
<mailto:[email-masked]> ] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 12:42 AM 
To: [email-masked] 
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits 

Thanks for the comments. 

The reason for applying for a BrandId of credits vs @credits (which is the 
brand we use and is our trademark) is the number of systems that have 
problems with the @ symbol as you discovered with the search engines. 

E.G. Our secure certificate is in the name of 'at UK PLC' because a bug in 
the verisign software that causes it to crash if there is an @ or other 
unusual characters in the name. 

Hence our general policy of dropping the @ where it is going to be used in 
systems and might cause interoperability problems in the future. 

You are right that the use of descriptive names is a two edged sword.  E.g. 
@UK PLC has significant problems with search engines since both UK and PLC 
are common and the combination is non unique.  This is combined with the 
problems associated with the @ symbol which is generally dropped. 

-- 
Regards  --  [email-masked] http://www.ukplc.net
<http://www.ukplc.net>  
+44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000     Mobile 07973 754 817     Fax 0118 963 7350 
@UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England 

-----Original Message----- 
From: Chris Smith [ mailto:[email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]> ] 
Sent: 24 October 2001 07:34 
To: [email-masked]; Ronald Duncan 
Subject: Re: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits 

Given that the company holding the brand 
is @Credits PLC, wouldn't it make more 
sense to apply for the BrandId of "@Credits" ? 

Keep in mind that - as far as I know - the 
assignment of a BrandId under IOTP confers 
no standing of any kind. It's just a keyword 
used for matching, not a trademark registration. 
Users won't ever see it - they will see the 
BrandName. 

Not only that, it's going to make you hard 
to find. Standard search engines don't seem 
to locate you when I search on @UK PLC, 
and searching on @Credits acts like the @ 
isn't even there. 

It might seem like a cool idea to have 
common words as brands, but it doesn't 
always work well. My experience is just 
the opposite - look at my last name. 
It does not make me easier to find - it 
makes me much harder to find, even for 
people who know where to look. 

...Chris Smith 

On Oct 23, 2001 at 10:40pm, Ronald Duncan wrote: 

> We would like to apply for the brand ID 'Credits' for our Internet 
Currency 
> 'Credits' 
> 
> The ultimate holding company is @UK PLC http://www.uk-plc.net
<http://www.uk-plc.net> .  The 
> subsidiary holding the brand is @Credits PLC. 
> 
> Thank you. 
> 
> -- 
> Regards  --  [email-masked] http://www.ukplc.net
<http://www.ukplc.net>  
> +44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000     Mobile 07973 754 817     Fax 0118 963 7350 
> @UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England 

---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Chris Smith                                       <[email-masked]> 

--Boundary_(ID_3/XRVpI4sBniy16/K4o6ew)
Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<TITLE>RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits</TITLE>

<META content="MSHTML 5.00.3315.2870" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=138545420-24102001>Ronald</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=138545420-24102001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=138545420-24102001>I 
think that "Credits" is too general a term (what do other people think?). It's a 
bit like trying to make the plural of "Cash" a BrandId except that it does not 
have one. I think that "Credits" should have some prefix or suffix. What do you 
think would work?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=138545420-24102001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=138545420-24102001>David</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ronald Duncan 
  [mailto:[email-masked]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 24, 2001 
  11:47 AM<BR><B>To:</B> [email-masked]<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: New 
  Brand/Brand ID: Credits<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
  <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  class=822312218-24102001>Personally, I dislike substituting 'at' for the @ and 
  prefer to just drop the @.&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  class=822312218-24102001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=822312218-24102001>This 
  has evolved into a standard procedure since we currently have approximately 
  350 @ branded companies.&nbsp; In all cases we drop the @ and just use the 
  name for the domain name, phone directory and other systems and the @ comes 
  back in for email addresses.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  class=822312218-24102001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=822312218-24102001>We 
  would prefer to use just 'credits' and should another company wish to use a 
  brand based on 'credits' they could add a suffix or prefix to distinguish the 
  entries.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  class=822312218-24102001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  class=822312218-24102001>Regards -- Ronald</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma 
    size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Burdett, David 
    [mailto:[email-masked]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> 24 October 2001 
    18:02<BR><B>To:</B> 'Ronald Duncan'; 
    [email-masked]<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: New Brand/Brand ID: 
    Credits<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
    <P><FONT size=2>Ronald</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>How about a Brand Id of "AtCredits" as it sounds like your 
    real brand name "@Credits" yet should avoid all the problems of using the 
    "@" (e.g. in certificates) and would avoid the confusion of using "Credits" 
    which is too general a name in my view.</FONT></P>
    <P><FONT size=2>Regards</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>David Burdett</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>From: 
    Ronald Duncan [<A 
    href="mailto:[email-masked]">mailto:[email-masked]</A>]</FONT> 
    <BR><FONT size=2>Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 12:42 AM</FONT> <BR><FONT 
    size=2>To: [email-masked]</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Subject: RE: 
    New Brand/Brand ID: Credits</FONT> </P><BR>
    <P><FONT size=2>Thanks for the comments.</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>The reason for applying for a BrandId of credits vs @credits 
    (which is the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>brand we use and is our trademark) is 
    the number of systems that have</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>problems with the @ 
    symbol as you discovered with the search engines.</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>E.G. Our secure certificate is in the name of 'at UK PLC' 
    because a bug in</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>the verisign software that causes 
    it to crash if there is an @ or other</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>unusual 
    characters in the name.</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>Hence our general policy of dropping the @ where it is going 
    to be used in</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>systems and might cause 
    interoperability problems in the future.</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>You are right that the use of descriptive names is a two 
    edged sword.&nbsp; E.g.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>@UK PLC has significant 
    problems with search engines since both UK and PLC</FONT> <BR><FONT 
    size=2>are common and the combination is non unique.&nbsp; This is combined 
    with the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>problems associated with the @ symbol which 
    is generally dropped.</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>--</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Regards&nbsp; --&nbsp; 
    [email-masked] <A href="http://www.ukplc.net" 
    target=_blank>http://www.ukplc.net</A></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>+44 (0) Tel 
    0118 963 7000&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Mobile 07973 754 
    817&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Fax 0118 963 7350</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>@UK 
    PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England 
</FONT></P><BR>
    <P><FONT size=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>From: 
    Chris Smith [<A 
    href="mailto:[email-masked]">mailto:[email-masked]</A>]</FONT> 
    <BR><FONT size=2>Sent: 24 October 2001 07:34</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>To: 
    [email-masked]; Ronald Duncan</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Subject: 
    Re: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits</FONT> </P><BR><BR>
    <P><FONT size=2>Given that the company holding the brand</FONT> <BR><FONT 
    size=2>is @Credits PLC, wouldn't it make more</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>sense 
    to apply for the BrandId of "@Credits" ?</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>Keep in mind that - as far as I know - the</FONT> <BR><FONT 
    size=2>assignment of a BrandId under IOTP confers</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>no 
    standing of any kind. It's just a keyword</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>used for 
    matching, not a trademark registration.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Users won't 
    ever see it - they will see the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>BrandName.</FONT> 
    </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>Not only that, it's going to make you hard</FONT> <BR><FONT 
    size=2>to find. Standard search engines don't seem</FONT> <BR><FONT 
    size=2>to locate you when I search on @UK PLC,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>and 
    searching on @Credits acts like the @</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>isn't even 
    there.</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>It might seem like a cool idea to have</FONT> <BR><FONT 
    size=2>common words as brands, but it doesn't</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>always 
    work well. My experience is just</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>the opposite - look 
    at my last name.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>It does not make me easier to find 
    - it</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>makes me much harder to find, even for</FONT> 
    <BR><FONT size=2>people who know where to look.</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>...Chris Smith</FONT> </P><BR><BR>
    <P><FONT size=2>On Oct 23, 2001 at 10:40pm, Ronald Duncan wrote:</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>&gt; We would like to apply for the brand ID 'Credits' for 
    our Internet</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Currency</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
    'Credits'</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; The 
    ultimate holding company is @UK PLC <A href="http://www.uk-plc.net" 
    target=_blank>http://www.uk-plc.net</A>.&nbsp; The</FONT> <BR><FONT 
    size=2>&gt; subsidiary holding the brand is @Credits PLC.</FONT> <BR><FONT 
    size=2>&gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; Thank you.</FONT> <BR><FONT 
    size=2>&gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; --</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
    Regards&nbsp; --&nbsp; [email-masked] <A 
    href="http://www.ukplc.net" target=_blank>http://www.ukplc.net</A></FONT> 
    <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; +44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
    Mobile 07973 754 817&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Fax 0118 963 7350</FONT> 
    <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; @UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 
    8NN, England</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT 
    size=2>----------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT> 
    <BR><FONT size=2>Chris 
    Smith&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
    &lt;[email-masked]&gt;</FONT> </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_3/XRVpI4sBniy16/K4o6ew)--

Content-return: allowed
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 19:47:04 +0100
From: Ronald Duncan <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits
To: [email-masked]

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--Boundary_(ID_OU3j8/i1ln7irhiLtpUWiA)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Personally, I dislike substituting 'at' for the @ and prefer to just drop
the @. 
 
This has evolved into a standard procedure since we currently have
approximately 350 @ branded companies.  In all cases we drop the @ and just
use the name for the domain name, phone directory and other systems and the
@ comes back in for email addresses.
 
We would prefer to use just 'credits' and should another company wish to use
a brand based on 'credits' they could add a suffix or prefix to distinguish
the entries.
 
Regards -- Ronald

-----Original Message-----
From: Burdett, David [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: 24 October 2001 18:02
To: 'Ronald Duncan'; [email-masked]
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits

Ronald 

How about a Brand Id of "AtCredits" as it sounds like your real brand name
"@Credits" yet should avoid all the problems of using the "@" (e.g. in
certificates) and would avoid the confusion of using "Credits" which is too
general a name in my view.

Regards 

David Burdett 

-----Original Message----- 
From: Ronald Duncan [ mailto:[email-masked]
<mailto:[email-masked]> ] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 12:42 AM 
To: [email-masked] 
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits 

Thanks for the comments. 

The reason for applying for a BrandId of credits vs @credits (which is the 
brand we use and is our trademark) is the number of systems that have 
problems with the @ symbol as you discovered with the search engines. 

E.G. Our secure certificate is in the name of 'at UK PLC' because a bug in 
the verisign software that causes it to crash if there is an @ or other 
unusual characters in the name. 

Hence our general policy of dropping the @ where it is going to be used in 
systems and might cause interoperability problems in the future. 

You are right that the use of descriptive names is a two edged sword.  E.g. 
@UK PLC has significant problems with search engines since both UK and PLC 
are common and the combination is non unique.  This is combined with the 
problems associated with the @ symbol which is generally dropped. 

-- 
Regards  --  [email-masked] http://www.ukplc.net
<http://www.ukplc.net>  
+44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000     Mobile 07973 754 817     Fax 0118 963 7350 
@UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England 

-----Original Message----- 
From: Chris Smith [ mailto:[email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]> ] 
Sent: 24 October 2001 07:34 
To: [email-masked]; Ronald Duncan 
Subject: Re: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits 

Given that the company holding the brand 
is @Credits PLC, wouldn't it make more 
sense to apply for the BrandId of "@Credits" ? 

Keep in mind that - as far as I know - the 
assignment of a BrandId under IOTP confers 
no standing of any kind. It's just a keyword 
used for matching, not a trademark registration. 
Users won't ever see it - they will see the 
BrandName. 

Not only that, it's going to make you hard 
to find. Standard search engines don't seem 
to locate you when I search on @UK PLC, 
and searching on @Credits acts like the @ 
isn't even there. 

It might seem like a cool idea to have 
common words as brands, but it doesn't 
always work well. My experience is just 
the opposite - look at my last name. 
It does not make me easier to find - it 
makes me much harder to find, even for 
people who know where to look. 

...Chris Smith 

On Oct 23, 2001 at 10:40pm, Ronald Duncan wrote: 

> We would like to apply for the brand ID 'Credits' for our Internet 
Currency 
> 'Credits' 
> 
> The ultimate holding company is @UK PLC http://www.uk-plc.net
<http://www.uk-plc.net> .  The 
> subsidiary holding the brand is @Credits PLC. 
> 
> Thank you. 
> 
> -- 
> Regards  --  [email-masked] http://www.ukplc.net
<http://www.ukplc.net>  
> +44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000     Mobile 07973 754 817     Fax 0118 963 7350 
> @UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England 

---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Chris Smith                                       <[email-masked]> 

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<TITLE>RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits</TITLE>

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<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=822312218-24102001>Personally, I dislike substituting 'at' for the @ and 
prefer to just drop the @.&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=822312218-24102001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=822312218-24102001>This 
has evolved into a standard procedure since we currently have approximately 350 
@ branded companies.&nbsp; In all cases we drop the @ and just use the name for 
the domain name, phone directory and other systems and the @ comes back in for 
email addresses.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=822312218-24102001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=822312218-24102001>We 
would prefer to use just 'credits' and should another company wish to use a 
brand based on 'credits' they could add a suffix or prefix to distinguish the 
entries.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=822312218-24102001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=822312218-24102001>Regards -- Ronald</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Burdett, David 
  [mailto:[email-masked]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> 24 October 2001 
  18:02<BR><B>To:</B> 'Ronald Duncan'; 
  [email-masked]<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: New Brand/Brand ID: 
  Credits<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
  <P><FONT size=2>Ronald</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>How about a Brand Id of "AtCredits" as it sounds like your 
  real brand name "@Credits" yet should avoid all the problems of using the "@" 
  (e.g. in certificates) and would avoid the confusion of using "Credits" which 
  is too general a name in my view.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT size=2>Regards</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>David Burdett</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>From: 
  Ronald Duncan [<A 
  href="mailto:[email-masked]">mailto:[email-masked]</A>]</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 12:42 AM</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>To: [email-masked]</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Subject: RE: 
  New Brand/Brand ID: Credits</FONT> </P><BR>
  <P><FONT size=2>Thanks for the comments.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>The reason for applying for a BrandId of credits vs @credits 
  (which is the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>brand we use and is our trademark) is 
  the number of systems that have</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>problems with the @ 
  symbol as you discovered with the search engines.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>E.G. Our secure certificate is in the name of 'at UK PLC' 
  because a bug in</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>the verisign software that causes it 
  to crash if there is an @ or other</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>unusual characters 
  in the name.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>Hence our general policy of dropping the @ where it is going 
  to be used in</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>systems and might cause interoperability 
  problems in the future.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>You are right that the use of descriptive names is a two edged 
  sword.&nbsp; E.g.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>@UK PLC has significant problems 
  with search engines since both UK and PLC</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>are common 
  and the combination is non unique.&nbsp; This is combined with the</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>problems associated with the @ symbol which is generally 
  dropped.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>--</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Regards&nbsp; --&nbsp; 
  [email-masked] <A href="http://www.ukplc.net" 
  target=_blank>http://www.ukplc.net</A></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>+44 (0) Tel 
  0118 963 7000&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Mobile 07973 754 
  817&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Fax 0118 963 7350</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>@UK PLC, 
  5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England </FONT></P><BR>
  <P><FONT size=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>From: Chris 
  Smith [<A 
  href="mailto:[email-masked]">mailto:[email-masked]</A>]</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>Sent: 24 October 2001 07:34</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>To: 
  [email-masked]; Ronald Duncan</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Subject: 
  Re: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits</FONT> </P><BR><BR>
  <P><FONT size=2>Given that the company holding the brand</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>is @Credits PLC, wouldn't it make more</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>sense to 
  apply for the BrandId of "@Credits" ?</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>Keep in mind that - as far as I know - the</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>assignment of a BrandId under IOTP confers</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>no 
  standing of any kind. It's just a keyword</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>used for 
  matching, not a trademark registration.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Users won't 
  ever see it - they will see the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>BrandName.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>Not only that, it's going to make you hard</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>to find. Standard search engines don't seem</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>to 
  locate you when I search on @UK PLC,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>and searching on 
  @Credits acts like the @</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>isn't even there.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>It might seem like a cool idea to have</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>common words as brands, but it doesn't</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>always 
  work well. My experience is just</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>the opposite - look 
  at my last name.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>It does not make me easier to find - 
  it</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>makes me much harder to find, even for</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>people who know where to look.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>...Chris Smith</FONT> </P><BR><BR>
  <P><FONT size=2>On Oct 23, 2001 at 10:40pm, Ronald Duncan wrote:</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>&gt; We would like to apply for the brand ID 'Credits' for our 
  Internet</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Currency</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
  'Credits'</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; The 
  ultimate holding company is @UK PLC <A href="http://www.uk-plc.net" 
  target=_blank>http://www.uk-plc.net</A>.&nbsp; The</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt; subsidiary holding the brand is @Credits PLC.</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; Thank you.</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; --</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; 
  Regards&nbsp; --&nbsp; [email-masked] <A href="http://www.ukplc.net" 
  target=_blank>http://www.ukplc.net</A></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; +44 (0) 
  Tel 0118 963 7000&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Mobile 07973 754 
  817&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Fax 0118 963 7350</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; @UK 
  PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT 
  size=2>----------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>Chris 
  Smith&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  &lt;[email-masked]&gt;</FONT> </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 10:02:12 -0700
From: "Burdett, David" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits
To: 'Ronald Duncan' <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
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Ronald

How about a Brand Id of "AtCredits" as it sounds like your real brand name
"@Credits" yet should avoid all the problems of using the "@" (e.g. in
certificates) and would avoid the confusion of using "Credits" which is too
general a name in my view.

Regards

David Burdett

-----Original Message-----
From: Ronald Duncan [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 12:42 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits

Thanks for the comments.

The reason for applying for a BrandId of credits vs @credits (which is the
brand we use and is our trademark) is the number of systems that have
problems with the @ symbol as you discovered with the search engines.

E.G. Our secure certificate is in the name of 'at UK PLC' because a bug in
the verisign software that causes it to crash if there is an @ or other
unusual characters in the name.

Hence our general policy of dropping the @ where it is going to be used in
systems and might cause interoperability problems in the future.

You are right that the use of descriptive names is a two edged sword.  E.g.
@UK PLC has significant problems with search engines since both UK and PLC
are common and the combination is non unique.  This is combined with the
problems associated with the @ symbol which is generally dropped.

--
Regards  --  [email-masked] http://www.ukplc.net
+44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000     Mobile 07973 754 817     Fax 0118 963 7350
@UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England 

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Smith [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: 24 October 2001 07:34
To: [email-masked]; Ronald Duncan
Subject: Re: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits

Given that the company holding the brand
is @Credits PLC, wouldn't it make more
sense to apply for the BrandId of "@Credits" ?

Keep in mind that - as far as I know - the
assignment of a BrandId under IOTP confers
no standing of any kind. It's just a keyword
used for matching, not a trademark registration.
Users won't ever see it - they will see the
BrandName.

Not only that, it's going to make you hard
to find. Standard search engines don't seem
to locate you when I search on @UK PLC,
and searching on @Credits acts like the @
isn't even there.

It might seem like a cool idea to have
common words as brands, but it doesn't
always work well. My experience is just
the opposite - look at my last name.
It does not make me easier to find - it
makes me much harder to find, even for
people who know where to look.

...Chris Smith

On Oct 23, 2001 at 10:40pm, Ronald Duncan wrote:

> We would like to apply for the brand ID 'Credits' for our Internet
Currency
> 'Credits'
>
> The ultimate holding company is @UK PLC http://www.uk-plc.net.  The
> subsidiary holding the brand is @Credits PLC.
>
> Thank you.
>
> --
> Regards  --  [email-masked] http://www.ukplc.net
> +44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000     Mobile 07973 754 817     Fax 0118 963 7350
> @UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Smith                                       <[email-masked]>

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<TITLE>RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits</TITLE>
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<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Ronald</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>How about a Brand Id of &quot;AtCredits&quot; as it=
 sounds like your real brand name &quot;@Credits&quot; yet should avo=
id all the problems of using the &quot;@&quot; (e.g. in certificates)=
 and would avoid the confusion of using &quot;Credits&quot; which is =
too general a name in my view.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Regards</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>David Burdett</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Ronald Duncan [<A HREF=3D"mailto:Ronald.Dunc=
[email-masked]">mailto:[email-masked]</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 12:42 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: [email-masked]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Thanks for the comments.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>The reason for applying for a BrandId of credits vs=
 @credits (which is the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>brand we use and is our trademark) is the number o=
f systems that have</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>problems with the @ symbol as you discovered with =
the search engines.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>E.G. Our secure certificate is in the name of 'at U=
K PLC' because a bug in</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>the verisign software that causes it to crash if t=
here is an @ or other</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>unusual characters in the name.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hence our general policy of dropping the @ where it=
 is going to be used in</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>systems and might cause interoperability problems =
in the future.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>You are right that the use of descriptive names is =
a two edged sword.&nbsp; E.g.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>@UK PLC has significant problems with search engin=
es since both UK and PLC</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>are common and the combination is non unique.&nbsp=
; This is combined with the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>problems associated with the @ symbol which is gen=
erally dropped.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>--</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Regards&nbsp; --&nbsp; [email-masked] <A =
HREF=3D"http://www.ukplc.net" TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.ukplc.net<=
/A></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>+44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Mobile 07973 754 817&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Fax 0118 963 7350</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>@UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, R=
G7 8NN, England </FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Chris Smith [<A HREF=3D"mailto:smith@interlo=
g.com">mailto:[email-masked]</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: 24 October 2001 07:34</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: [email-masked]; Ronald Duncan</FO=
NT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: Re: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Given that the company holding the brand</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>is @Credits PLC, wouldn't it make more</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>sense to apply for the BrandId of &quot;@Credits&q=
uot; ?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Keep in mind that - as far as I know - the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>assignment of a BrandId under IOTP confers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>no standing of any kind. It's just a keyword</FONT=
>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>used for matching, not a trademark registration.</=
FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Users won't ever see it - they will see the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>BrandName.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Not only that, it's going to make you hard</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>to find. Standard search engines don't seem</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>to locate you when I search on @UK PLC,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>and searching on @Credits acts like the @</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>isn't even there.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>It might seem like a cool idea to have</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>common words as brands, but it doesn't</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>always work well. My experience is just</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>the opposite - look at my last name.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>It does not make me easier to find - it</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>makes me much harder to find, even for</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>people who know where to look.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>...Chris Smith</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>On Oct 23, 2001 at 10:40pm, Ronald Duncan wrote:</F=
ONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; We would like to apply for the brand ID 'Credi=
ts' for our Internet</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Currency</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; 'Credits'</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; The ultimate holding company is @UK PLC <A HR=
EF=3D"http://www.uk-plc.net" TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.uk-plc.net<=
/A>.&nbsp; The</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; subsidiary holding the brand is @Credits PLC.=
</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Thank you.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; --</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Regards&nbsp; --&nbsp; [email-masked]=
t <A HREF=3D"http://www.ukplc.net" TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.ukplc=
.net</A></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; +44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; Mobile 07973 754 817&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Fax 0118 963 7350</=
FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; @UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Readi=
ng, RG7 8NN, England</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>---------------------------------------------------=
-------------------</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Chris Smith&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;smith@interlo=
g.com&gt;</FONT>
</P>

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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 09:30:06 -0700
From: "Lewis, Tony" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits
To: [email-masked]

On Wednesday, October 24, 2001 12:41 AM, Ronald Duncan wrote:

> E.G. Our secure certificate is in the name of 'at UK PLC' because a bug 
> in the verisign software that causes it to crash if there is an @ or 
> other unusual characters in the name.

There may be a bug in the VeriSign software that causes it to crash if the
Subject name has an "@", but even if that bug were fixed, you would not be
able to include the "@" in your certificate. Names in X.509 certificates
must either be a subset of ASCII called PrintableString or Unicode. The
special characters available in PrintableString are "'()+,--./:=?".

Tony

Content-return: allowed
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 08:41:45 +0100
From: Ronald Duncan <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits
To: [email-masked]

Thanks for the comments.

The reason for applying for a BrandId of credits vs @credits (which is the
brand we use and is our trademark) is the number of systems that have
problems with the @ symbol as you discovered with the search engines.

E.G. Our secure certificate is in the name of 'at UK PLC' because a bug in
the verisign software that causes it to crash if there is an @ or other
unusual characters in the name.

Hence our general policy of dropping the @ where it is going to be used in
systems and might cause interoperability problems in the future.

You are right that the use of descriptive names is a two edged sword.  E.g.
@UK PLC has significant problems with search engines since both UK and PLC
are common and the combination is non unique.  This is combined with the
problems associated with the @ symbol which is generally dropped.

--
Regards  --  [email-masked] http://www.ukplc.net
+44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000     Mobile 07973 754 817     Fax 0118 963 7350
@UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England 

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Smith [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: 24 October 2001 07:34
To: [email-masked]; Ronald Duncan
Subject: Re: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits

Given that the company holding the brand
is @Credits PLC, wouldn't it make more
sense to apply for the BrandId of "@Credits" ?

Keep in mind that - as far as I know - the
assignment of a BrandId under IOTP confers
no standing of any kind. It's just a keyword
used for matching, not a trademark registration.
Users won't ever see it - they will see the
BrandName.

Not only that, it's going to make you hard
to find. Standard search engines don't seem
to locate you when I search on @UK PLC,
and searching on @Credits acts like the @
isn't even there.

It might seem like a cool idea to have
common words as brands, but it doesn't
always work well. My experience is just
the opposite - look at my last name.
It does not make me easier to find - it
makes me much harder to find, even for
people who know where to look.

...Chris Smith

On Oct 23, 2001 at 10:40pm, Ronald Duncan wrote:

> We would like to apply for the brand ID 'Credits' for our Internet
Currency
> 'Credits'
>
> The ultimate holding company is @UK PLC http://www.uk-plc.net.  The
> subsidiary holding the brand is @Credits PLC.
>
> Thank you.
>
> --
> Regards  --  [email-masked] http://www.ukplc.net
> +44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000     Mobile 07973 754 817     Fax 0118 963 7350
> @UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Smith                                       <[email-masked]>

Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 02:33:57 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
From: Chris Smith <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits
To: [email-masked], Ronald Duncan <[email-masked]>

Given that the company holding the brand
is @Credits PLC, wouldn't it make more
sense to apply for the BrandId of "@Credits" ?

Keep in mind that - as far as I know - the
assignment of a BrandId under IOTP confers
no standing of any kind. It's just a keyword
used for matching, not a trademark registration.
Users won't ever see it - they will see the
BrandName.

Not only that, it's going to make you hard
to find. Standard search engines don't seem
to locate you when I search on @UK PLC,
and searching on @Credits acts like the @
isn't even there.

It might seem like a cool idea to have
common words as brands, but it doesn't
always work well. My experience is just
the opposite - look at my last name.
It does not make me easier to find - it
makes me much harder to find, even for
people who know where to look.

...Chris Smith

On Oct 23, 2001 at 10:40pm, Ronald Duncan wrote:

> We would like to apply for the brand ID 'Credits' for our Internet Currency
> 'Credits'
>
> The ultimate holding company is @UK PLC http://www.uk-plc.net.  The
> subsidiary holding the brand is @Credits PLC.
>
> Thank you.
>
> --
> Regards  --  [email-masked] http://www.ukplc.net
> +44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000     Mobile 07973 754 817     Fax 0118 963 7350
> @UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Smith                                       <[email-masked]>

Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 16:30:43 -0700
From: "Lewis, Tony" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits
To: [email-masked]

"Credits" sounds like a generic term to me. Do we have any restrictions on
what can be used for a Brand ID?

Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: Ronald Duncan [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 2:41 PM
To: [email-masked]'
Subject: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits

We would like to apply for the brand ID 'Credits' for our Internet Currency
'Credits'

The ultimate holding company is @UK PLC http://www.uk-plc.net.  The
subsidiary holding the brand is @Credits PLC.

Thank you.

--
Regards  --  [email-masked] http://www.ukplc.net
+44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000     Mobile 07973 754 817     Fax 0118 963 7350
@UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England 

Content-return: allowed
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 22:40:50 +0100
From: Ronald Duncan <[email-masked]>
Subject: New Brand/Brand ID: Credits
To: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>

We would like to apply for the brand ID 'Credits' for our Internet Currency
'Credits'

The ultimate holding company is @UK PLC http://www.uk-plc.net.  The
subsidiary holding the brand is @Credits PLC.

Thank you.

--
Regards  --  [email-masked] http://www.ukplc.net
+44 (0) Tel 0118 963 7000     Mobile 07973 754 817     Fax 0118 963 7350
@UK PLC, 5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Reading, RG7 8NN, England 

Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 07:10:34 -0400
From: [email-masked]
Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-trade-ecml2-spec-02.txt
Sender: [email-masked]
To: IETF-Announce: ;
Cc: [email-masked]
Reply-to: [email-masked]

--Boundary_(ID_P/AwpMTEcymmnc6q+SSjAA)
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Internet Open Trading Protocol Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Electronic Commerce Modeling Language (ECML):Version 2
                          Specification
	Author(s)	: J. Parsons
	Filename	: draft-ietf-trade-ecml2-spec-02.txt
	Pages		: 22
	Date		: 18-Oct-01
	
Electronic commerce frequently requires a substantial exchange of
information in order to complete a purchase or other transaction,
especially the first time the parties communicate. A standard set of
hierarchicly organized payment related information fields in an XML
syntax are defined as the second version of an Electronic Commerce
Modeling Language (ECML) so that this task can be more easily
automated, for example by wallet software

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-trade-ecml2-spec-02.txt

To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to 
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type "cd internet-drafts" and then
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Content-type: multipart/alternative;
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--Boundary_(ID_0JN3fXbTDioh6FKQexDOPA)
Content-type: Message/External-body; server="[email-masked]";
 access-type=mail-server

Content-Type: text/plain
Content-ID:	<[email-masked]>

ENCODING mime
FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-trade-ecml2-spec-02.txt

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Content-type: Message/External-body; directory=internet-drafts;
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--Boundary_(ID_0JN3fXbTDioh6FKQexDOPA)--

--Boundary_(ID_P/AwpMTEcymmnc6q+SSjAA)--

Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 15:09:52 -0700
From: Ron Ehli <[email-masked]>
Subject: BrandID
To: [email-masked]
Importance: Normal

We would like to submit our request for the following BrandID:

BrandID: EZPay
Company: ITI Services, Inc.
Email: [email-masked]
Address: 1121 Court C, Suite 202
Broadway Plaza
Tacoma, WA 98402
USA
Voice: 253-284-0320
Fax: 253-284-0324

Date published: October 12th 2001

Thank you
Ron Ehli
CEO

Content-return: allowed
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 16:37:55 -0400
From: Eastlake III Donald-LDE008 <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: New Brand/BrandID: "paybox"
To: "'Taglang, Guillaume'" <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]

Hi,

More or less correct.  If no objection has been posted on this list w=
ithin
3 week, you can then send a message to [email-masked] referencing your
posting below and referencing the section of RFC 2801 or the IANA web=
 page
which specifies this procedure, and then IANA should register your Br=
andID
and post it by updating their database (and presumably the web page a=
t
<http://www.iana.org/assignments/iotp-codes>).

Thanks,
Donald

-----Original Message-----
=46rom: Taglang, Guillaume [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 12:57 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: New Brand/BrandID: "paybox"

Hi list,

I do not know the real process for doing this, but it seems that I ju=
st have
to send a mail to this list and wait 3 weeks for a confirmation.

So, my company, paybox.net AG (http://www.paybox.net), would like to =
get the
BrandID 'paybox', if it's not already registered.

Thanks in advance.

Best regards,

  Guillaume

Guillaume Taglang
Product Development and Integration

paybox.net AG  :-)))  =09=09
Am Prime Parc 6   =09=09
65479 Raunheim/Frankfurt
Germany

phone:  +49.6142.407-1210
fax:    +49.6142.407-1201
mobile:=09+49.172.863 19 64

mailto:[email-masked]
________________________________________________________________

The world=B4s first mobile payment service: http://www.paybox.net/
________________________________________________________________

Content-return: allowed
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 18:57:12 +0200
From: "Taglang, Guillaume" <[email-masked]>
Subject: New Brand/BrandID: "paybox"
To: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>

Hi list,

I do not know the real process for doing this, but it seems that I ju=
st have
to send a mail to this list and wait 3 weeks for a confirmation.

So, my company, paybox.net AG (http://www.paybox.net), would like to =
get the
BrandID 'paybox', if it's not already registered.

Thanks in advance.

Best regards,

  Guillaume

Guillaume Taglang
Product Development and Integration

paybox.net AG  :-)))  =09=09
Am Prime Parc 6   =09=09
65479 Raunheim/Frankfurt
Germany

phone:  +49.6142.407-1210
fax:    +49.6142.407-1201
mobile:=09+49.172.863 19 64

mailto:[email-masked]
________________________________________________________________

The world=B4s first mobile payment service: http://www.paybox.net/
________________________________________________________________