Subject: IANA URN registration enquiry - Rules for Lexical Equivalence of NSS part

From: "DTG Registration" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 10:25:36 +0100

Hello,

When declaring rules for lexical equivalence of NSS part, is this
section valid if only the URN NID is being registered with IANA?

Thank you

Will Godfrey

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---

From: Peter Saint-Andre <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 21:34:48 -0600

> section valid if only the URN NID is being registered with IANA?

I assume you're referring to Appendix A of RFC 3406. Because the entire
text of that document is about the registration of a namespace
identifier with IANA (or, to be precise, "the processes by which a
collection of identifiers satisfying certain constraints can become a
bona fide URN namespace by obtaining a NID"), it's not clear to me what
you mean by your question "is this section valid if only the URN NID is
being registered with IANA?" Only the NID is ever registered with IANA
because specific URNs under that NID are issued by the administrative
entity that registers the NID in the first place. However, part of the
process of registering a NID is specifying the rules for lexical
equivalence. As with the other requirements of RFC 3406, defining the
rules for lexical equivalence will help the administrative entity to
clarify its processes and procedures regarding URN issuance, and also
will help developers of software for handling the issued URNs to
implement consistent parsing algorithms.

Did I misunderstand your question?

Peter

--
Peter Saint-Andre
https://stpeter.im/

---

From: "DTG Registration" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 16:48:56 +0100

Dear Peter,

Thank you for your answer, the information provided does still not make clear why NSS lexical equivalence rules are required, if the NSS is not registered with IANA. The text in RFC 3406 implies that NSS lexical equivalence rules are required as part of the NID registration, see extract below.

Rules for Lexical Equivalence of NSS part:

      [[ Editorial Note: This clause moved into vicinity of "syntax". ]]

      [[ Editorial Note: In the past, there has been iterated trouble in
      tentative registration documents with regard to what rules can be
      imposed for lexical equivalence.  Since the "urn:" prefix and the
      NID part both are invariably case-insensitive per RFC 3986 and RFC
      2141[bis], in order to avoid repeated confusion, this version of
      the template tentatively restricts this clause to only the NSS
      part of the new URN namespace definition documents. ]]

      {
      If there are particular algorithms for determining equivalence
      between two identifiers in the underlying namespace (and hence, in
      the URN string itself), rules can be provided here.

      Some examples include:
      -  equivalence between hyphenated and non-hyphenated groupings in
         the identifier string;
      -  equivalence between single-quotes and double-quotes;
      -  namespace-defined equivalences between specific characters,
         such as "character X with or without diacritic marks".

      Note that these are not normative statements for any kind of best
      practice for handling equivalences between characters; they are
      statements limited to reflecting the namespace's own rules.
      }

Perhaps I am unclear on the process after the urn has been successfully registered. Are NSS lexical equivalence rules stored and publicised by IANA, so that people wishing to make use of dtg defined resources know how to correctly address them?

Best regards,

Will Godfrey

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Saint-Andre [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: 20 April 2011 04:35
To: DTG Registration
Cc: Benja Fallenstein; Ted Hardie; Dave Walton; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: IANA URN registration enquiry - Rules for Lexical Equivalence of NSS part - Email found in subject

Peter

--
Peter Saint-Andre
https://stpeter.im/

---

From: Ted Hardie <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 09:33:27 -0700

Hi Will,

Each registered namespace identifier is linked to the document by which it
was registered by IANA, so someone encountering the NID can look up basic
information about it (e.g. registrant, lexical equivalence, etc.).

regards,

Ted Hardie

On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 8:48 AM, DTG Registration
<[email-masked]>wrote:

> Dear Peter,
>
> Thank you for your answer, the information provided does still not make
> clear why NSS lexical equivalence rules are required, if the NSS is not
> registered with IANA. The text in RFC 3406 implies that NSS lexical
> equivalence rules are required as part of the NID registration, see extract
> below.
>
> Perhaps I am unclear on the process after the urn has been successfully
> registered. Are NSS lexical equivalence rules stored and publicised by IANA,
> so that people wishing to make use of dtg defined resources know how to
> correctly address them?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Will Godfrey
>
>
>
>
> The information in this email and any attachments is confidential, may be
> subject to copyright and is intended solely for the addressee (s). Access to
> this email by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail.  In this case,
> please note that copying, disseminating or taking any action in relation to
> the contents of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. Any views expressed in
> this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender
> specifically states them to be the views of Digital TV Group. Digital TV
> Group cannot ensure that emails are virus-free and therefore accepts no
> liability for viruses that might be transferred by this email or any
> attachment.
>
>
>
>
>

---

From: Peter Saint-Andre <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 13:44:07 -0600

First, you are quoting from draft-ietf-urnbis-rfc3406bis-urn-ns-reg, not
from RFC 3406. Until and unless the Internet-Draft you cite is approved,
RFC 3406 is still the operative specification.

Second, RFC 3406 says "If":

      If there are particular algorithms for determining equivalence
      between two identifiers in the underlying namespace (hence, in the
      URN string itself), rules can be provided here.

It is not necessary to define namespace-specific rules for lexical
equivalence. However, if you do then this part of the registration is
the place to describe them.

Third, yes it is true that the NSS is not registered with the IANA, but
the NID is registered and as part of the process of registering a NID we
want to make sure that the manager of the namespace has clear policies
and procedures in place for issuance of identifiers (i.e., URNs). One
such policy consists of the rules for lexical equivalence, if any.

Fourth, the IANA does not publicize the rules for lexical equivalence
for any particular namespace, but the RFC that is published as part of
the NID registration process does specify the rules (and the IANA
registry points to the RFC). As a result, anyone who wants to use
identifiers issued by the relevant NID manager can determine if there
are namespace-specific rules for that NID.

I hope that clarifies the matter.

Peter

On 4/21/11 9:48 AM, DTG Registration wrote:
> Dear Peter,
> 
> Thank you for your answer, the information provided does still not
> make clear why NSS lexical equivalence rules are required, if the NSS
> is not registered with IANA. The text in RFC 3406 implies that NSS
> lexical equivalence rules are required as part of the NID
> registration, see extract below.
> 
> imposed for lexical equivalence.  Since the "urn:" prefix and the NID
> part both are invariably case-insensitive per RFC 3986 and RFC 
> 2141[bis], in order to avoid repeated confusion, this version of the
> template tentatively restricts this clause to only the NSS part of
> the new URN namespace definition documents. ]]
> 
> { If there are particular algorithms for determining equivalence 
> Some examples include: -  equivalence between hyphenated and
> non-hyphenated groupings in the identifier string; -  equivalence
> between single-quotes and double-quotes; -  namespace-defined
> equivalences between specific characters, such as "character X with
> or without diacritic marks".
> 
> statements limited to reflecting the namespace's own rules. }
> 
> Perhaps I am unclear on the process after the urn has been
> successfully registered. Are NSS lexical equivalence rules stored and
> publicised by IANA, so that people wishing to make use of dtg defined
> resources know how to correctly address them?
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Will Godfrey
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Peter Saint-Andre
> [mailto:[email-masked]] Sent: 20 April 2011 04:35 To: DTG
> Registration Cc: Benja Fallenstein; Ted Hardie; Dave Walton;
> [email-masked] Subject: Re: IANA URN registration enquiry -
> Rules for Lexical Equivalence of NSS part - Email found in subject
> 
> I assume you're referring to Appendix A of RFC 3406. Because the
> entire text of that document is about the registration of a
> namespace identifier with IANA (or, to be precise, "the processes by
> which a collection of identifiers satisfying certain constraints can
> become a bona fide URN namespace by obtaining a NID"), it's not clear
> to me what you mean by your question "is this section valid if only
> the URN NID is being registered with IANA?" Only the NID is ever
> registered with IANA because specific URNs under that NID are issued
> by the administrative entity that registers the NID in the first
> place. However, part of the process of registering a NID is
> specifying the rules for lexical equivalence. As with the other
> requirements of RFC 3406, defining the rules for lexical equivalence
> will help the administrative entity to clarify its processes and
> procedures regarding URN issuance, and also will help developers of
> software for handling the issued URNs to implement consistent parsing
> algorithms.
> 
> -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/
>