Subject: Re updating the "DNS Debugging Tools" Doc

From: April Marine <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 11:12:32 -0800 (PST)

Here is an update from the DNS Operations BOF that was held the day after
our FYI Updates BOF was held.  Peter Koch volunteered to lead an effort to
ascertain whether FYIUP's intention to update FYI 27 "Tools for DNS
Debugging" would overlap or be in conflict with the plans of DNSOPS.
Since the update of that doc was originally decided in USWG, I'm cc'ing
both groups' mailing lists, probably just ensuring that everyone gets this
twice.

Anyway, DNSOPS did have a discussion of whether they felt an up to date
document along these lines would be useful.  As per the outcome of the
FYIUP group, the plan for the update to FYI 27 was presented as a two
pronged thing: a list of problems, and then the tools that help address
them.

DNSOPS thought it would be useful to split that proposed document into
two: one dealing with the tools and the other with common problems.
DNSOPS, as the operators, would write the common problems doc and FYIUP
could do the tools.  However, after more discussion, it was felt that a
doc listing tools would date too quickly, especially in comparison to a
web page.  There is already at least one excellent web page listing DNS
tools, to which all the operators would point people even if a document
existed as well on the assumption that the page would be more up to date.

Therefore, the group decided that a DNS tools document should NOT be done
at all.

USWG can handle its need to note the status of FYI 27 by pointing to one
or more web pages as resources that handle the topic. (This would be for
the update of FYI 1.)

This decision would require an update to the FYIUP proposed charter.
There were some FYIUP folks in the meeting, but any comments from the
list?

thanks,
April

-------------------------------------------------------------------
April Marine			
Director of Support Services		+1.650.779.6006
Internet Engines Incorporated		[email-masked]

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From: "Philip J. Nesser II" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 13:17:57 -0800

As one of the proposed editors of the FYI27 document I am more than
happy to let it go :-)

As a chair, I would point out that we had some agreement to split FYI7
into two documents and FYI15 into maybe two documents so I think the
group would have more than enough to do without FYI27 on the agenda.

- --->  Phil

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf Of
April
> Marine
> Sent: Thursday, April 01, 1999 11:13 AM
> To: [email-masked]
> Cc: USWG
> Subject: Re updating the "DNS Debugging Tools" Doc
> 
>

---

From: Michael Sondow <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 17:52:57 -0500

April Marine a écrit:
> However, after more discussion, it was felt that a
> doc listing tools would date too quickly, especially in comparison to > a web page.

That all depends on whether or not the web page was actively
maintained and updated. This is evidently the intention of people
who make webpages, but then things don't seem to always work out
that way. :) 

> There is already at least one excellent web page listing DNS
> tools

Oh? Where is that?

> to which all the operators would point people even if a document

Again, that's only an assumption. 

> Therefore, the group decided that a DNS tools document should NOT be done

You mean pending the actual creation of the webpage, right?

> or more web pages as resources that handle the topic. (This would be > for the update of FYI 1.)

Sure, that'll work alright.

---

From: "Gary Kessler" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 08:55:08 -0500

Hi all.

>> There is already at least one excellent web page listing DNS
[snip]

Check out the DNS Resources Directory at http://www.dns.net/dnsrd/.

I also have a paper titled "Setting Up Your Own DNS" at http://www.hill.com/library/dns.html; it's a little old right now but I'd be happy to update it if you'd like.

Later!
/kessler

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Hill Associates                     +1 802-655-8659 (direct line)
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---

From: April Marine <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 07:57:33 -0800 (PST)

On Fri, 2 Apr 1999, Michael Sondow wrote:

> 
> Another big problem now is Y2K compliance in BIND. These little ISPs

Oy!  Considering I now work closely with ISC, can we please make the
distinction between the software and the implementations!  BIND is Y2K
compliant.  What strings people may have entered into their files...

loyally yours,
April

---

From: Michael Sondow <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 10:10:39 -0500

> Check out the DNS Resources Directory at http://www.dns.net/dnsrd/.

I did, and found it to be an excellent resource. I've sent the URL
to my ISP (although, who knows if he'll use it?).

> I also have a paper titled "Setting Up Your Own DNS" at http://www.hill.com/library/dns.html; it's a little old right now but I'd be happy to update it if you'd like.

I'll check that out today. Thanks. And if you'd like to update it,
that would be very nice, too. 

The FYIs and RFCs on setting up the DNS records, and on the DNS
tools, don't cover enough. The problem with them is that they don't
give enough examples of mis-configured records and how to fix them
(short of starting all over again). 

My ISP's zone files are in a terrible state. This seems to be
surprisingly common among small-ish ISPs. For example, when and how
to use CNAME is not very clearly explained in the BIND books. Same
goes for the MX records. My ISP used to have all sorts of bad CNAME
records in the zone files for me and for a lot of other customers,
until an engineer at the Mexico NIC did me the favor of going
through my ISP's records and making a list of all the bad ones. But
even he missed a few. 

Another big problem now is Y2K compliance in BIND. These little ISPs
who set up their accounts and records four or five years ago don't
realize how many non-compliant strings they've got in their files. I
convinced my ISP to search for "9*" in the files, and we found seven
instances of it without the "19" in his own records, with three in
the NS record!

In other words, any further information will be most gratefully
appreciated. Until the day when there's some sort of external
control of DNS records (an automatic, third-party check-up of the
records of everyone running a name server?), the only thing that can
be done is to make information and tools available.

---

From: Michael Sondow <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 12:19:56 -0500

> compliant.  What strings people may have entered into their files...

Of course. OTOH, since BIND has no internal recursive search
tools...