Subject: [v6ops] Very basic question: What is IPv6 native?

From: Alejandro Acosta <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 15:57:23 -0400

Hello there,

  Sorry if this is not the place to ask this.

  I was looking for the concept of "Native IPv6" with no luck.

  I performed a search in google restricting the results inside
ietf.org. However even when a lot of results with the string "IPv6
Native" the concept/description/meaning of what IPv6 native is did not
show up. Among the results I found:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6751 (Native IPv6 behind IPv4-to-IPv4 NAT
Customer Premises Equipment)

https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-v6ops-rfc7084-bis-00.html (Basic
Requirements for IPv6 Customer Edge Routers)

https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-lopez-v6ops-dc-ipv6-05.html (IPv6
Operational Guidelines for Datacenters)

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7381 ()

  And I found this old thread which refer to this very same topic:

  https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/KkkOMeinS-l9i_SaViVXHuRw20A

  Is there any document that I might be missing that officially
describes the concept/meaning of "Native IPv6"?

Thanks a lot,

Alejandro,

---

From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 22:00:07 +0200

Hi Alejandro,

May be something for adding some more text into:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-palet-v6ops-ipv6-only/

Let me know if the existing text is sufficient, or what do you suggest to add.

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet

El 18/7/19 21:57, "v6ops en nombre de Alejandro Acosta" <[email-masked] en nombre de [email-masked]> escribió:

    Hello there,

    

    

    

    Thanks a lot,

    Alejandro,

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From: Fred Baker <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 13:57:37 -0700

> On Jul 18, 2019, at 12:57 PM, Alejandro Acosta <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Hello there,
> 

I might define it as parallel to "native IPv4" or "native Ethernet". If it depends on things using the proposal defined in RFC 8200, and the associated RFCs around it, it uses IPv6. If it *also* requires something using RFC 791 (such as "IPv6 may in some contexts have to be tunneled though IPv4 in some way"), that's IPv6 plus something else, and it therefore not "native".

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---

From: Alejandro Acosta <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 17:51:05 -0400

Hello Jordi,

  Thanks for this, I was not aware of this draft.  I'm happy the
definition is in a document, hopefully it moves forward in the WG. Hard
to believe so many documents mention "native IPv6" without a clear
definition (well, assumptions are just fine but much better to write it
down)

  So far I like this definition (copy/pasted from your doc):

5.  Native dual-stack

   This can be applied to a host, router, link, network (part), etc.  It
   means that both, IPv4 and IPv6 are configured/used natively (without
   the need of transition mechanisms).

  The part: "without the need of transition mechanisms" imho is the key.

  If you allow me to say something, you can add to your text: "without
the need of transition mechanisms such as encapsulation, protocol
translations and/or packet modifications". Adding this won't hurt.

  Thanks, good luck.

Alejandro,

---

From: Joel Jaeggli <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 15:14:40 -0700

> On Jul 18, 2019, at 12:57, Alejandro Acosta <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Hello there,
> 

In the era of the early ipv6 networks it was  necessary to build tunneled overlays or employ transitional technologies e.g. 6to4 or teredo to support transitional ipv6 hosts. these are to be contrasted with cases where the support of IPv6 is intrinsic (native if you will) to the network control and forwarding architecture. native as used at the time implies more about the state of the network at the time then it does today. it was common at the time to refer to inter domain multicast using pim and bgp as native multicast as compared to the previously tunneled mbone.

---

From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2019 16:59:49 +0200

Hi Alejandro,

I need to think it twice, just to be safe, but in principle I agree with adding the text that you’re suggesting.

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

El 18/7/19 23:51, "v6ops en nombre de Alejandro Acosta" <[email-masked] en nombre de [email-masked]> escribió:

Hello Jordi,

  Thanks for this, I was not aware of this draft.  I'm happy the definition is in a document, hopefully it moves forward in the WG. Hard to believe so many documents mention "native IPv6" without a clear definition (well, assumptions are just fine but much better to write it down)

5.  Native dual-stack

  If you allow me to say something, you can add to your text: "without the need of transition mechanisms such as encapsulation, protocol translations and/or packet modifications". Adding this won't hurt.

  Thanks, good luck.

Alejandro,

 

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet

 
    Hello there,

    

    

    

    Thanks a lot,

    Alejandro,

 

 
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