Subject: [weirds] search redirects

From: Ernie Dainow <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2013 17:25:58 -0400

The search for domains and nameservers can be redirected, since they 
contain .tld and a redirector can determine the server for that domain. 
For entity search there is no such information. However that could be 
provided by changing the entity search query to something like
/entities?fn=XXXX&tld=YYY

A similar extension could also be used with entity lookup queries so 
that they could also be redirected.

-Ernie

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From: "John Levine" <[email-masked]>
Date: 25 Oct 2013 03:21:14 -0000

>/entities?fn=XXXX&tld=YYY

I'm confused.  Aren't entities specific to TLDs?  The only redirects that
would make sense would be to other servers that handle (perhaps part of)
the same name space.

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From: Ernie Dainow <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2013 13:45:55 -0400

> would make sense would be to other servers that handle (perhaps part of)
If a client sends a request for a domain to a redirector, it will get a 
response that most likely includes handles for one or more entities. To 
get the details for one of those entities, it can analyze the url from 
which it received the (redirected) response to extract the authoritative 
server, or it can send the entity request to the redirector.

Note that the domain response should also have a link to the entity, 
which is direct and preferable to using redirection. But the above 
suggestion is a way to make redirection universal and applicable to all 
RDAP queries, since the current specs do not support redirection for 
entities.

On the other hand, if we define a simple universal bootstrap scheme 
where clients can easily locate the server for any TLD, then perhaps we 
don't need redirection at all, for DNRs at least.

-Ernie

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From: John R Levine <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2013 19:06:49 -0400 (EDT)

> server, or it can send the entity request to the redirector.

Hmmn.  It would seem obvious to say to send the request back to the server 
that told you about the entity, but it's not clear how many clients make 
it easy to examine the redirect chain for a response.

> On the other hand, if we define a simple universal bootstrap scheme where 
> clients can easily locate the server for any TLD, then perhaps we don't need 
> redirection at all, for DNRs at least.

There are plenty of TLDs with internal structure below the TLD.  A 
familiar one is .UK where the TLD and CO.UK are Nominet, but .AC.UK is 
Janet.

Regards,
John Levine, [email-masked], Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY
"I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly.

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From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 11:59:36 +0000

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On
> Behalf Of Ernie Dainow
> Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 5:26 PM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: [weirds] search redirects
> 

I've got mixed feelings about this. I can see the utility, but it just doesn't feel right. The TLD is a natural part of domains and name servers. It's *not* a natural part of an entity. Plus, how would this work for an RIR where there are entities, but no TLD? I'd like to stay away from special case logic in the protocol if at all possible.

Scott

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From: Andy Newton <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 16:51:51 +0000

On 10/28/13 7:59 AM, "Hollenbeck, Scott" <[email-masked]> wrote:

>I've got mixed feelings about this. I can see the utility, but it just
>doesn't feel right. The TLD is a natural part of domains and name
>servers. It's *not* a natural part of an entity. Plus, how would this
>work for an RIR where there are entities, but no TLD? I'd like to stay
>away from special case logic in the protocol if at all possible.

I agree with Scott about staying away from special use case logic in the
protocol.

I do think there is room for redirects of entity lookups when used with
structured handles, but this is more of a convention issue rather than a
protocol issue. But searches are different than lookups, in that they can
return multiple results. What is a client suppose to do with multiple
referrals? Chase each one down? That seems troubling. Additionally, these
wouldn't be HTTP redirects but redirects at the JSON layer.

-andy

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From: "John Levine" <[email-masked]>
Date: 28 Oct 2013 18:46:34 -0000

>protocol issue. ...

Here's the scenario I see as most likely to cause trouble.  I look
up something like this:

	http://rdap-servers.net/domain/bull.hockey

It redirects to the real server for .hockey and I get back a blob
of JSON that includes something like this:

   {
     "handle" : "abc123",
     "roles" : [ "organization" ],
     ...
   }

To look up the handle abc123, I need to go back to the .hockey server,
but if I do this, I lose, because the redirector doesn't have the
context to know where that handle came from:

	http://rdap-servers.net/entity/abc123

A possible band-aid would be to include in the JSON response the name
of the server to handle related queries, which will usually be the one
returning the response.

This could also be useful for situtations like .AC.UK, where a
subdomain is under different management from the TLD. Even if you know
the TLD's server, you run into the same problem if the handles for a
subdomain are separate.

R's,
John