Subject: Re: Thinking about a party at the Atlanta party.....

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 09:50:45 -0700 (PDT)

> an idea floated past the IESG on a recent telechat.
> We wondered if it would be a Good Idea to invite the WG Chairs over for a
> drink or five after the sessions one evening in Atlanta.

> If it's a Good Idea, we'll manage to schedule a room somehow; if it's a Bad
> Idea, we'd better get rid of it early.

> Atlanta has only long days (evening sessions Mon & Tue, plenaries Wed &
> Thu, no Friday), so it's going to start late, and not go on too long.

> But - it might be a good idea.
> What do people think?

Harald, as you know, the apps area has been doing something along these lines
for several years now. Experiecne there would indicate that it can be very
helpful as long as it doesn't turn into WG inventory time.

				Ned

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From: "Daniel O. Awduche" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 13:10:27 -0400

Excellent idea.

Cheers,
/Dan

>-- Original Message --
>Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 17:51:14 +0200
>From: Harald Alvestrand <[email-masked]>
>To: [email-masked]
>Subject: Thinking about a party at the Atlanta party.....
>
>
>Folks,
>               Harald

---

From: Aaron Falk <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 09:58:50 -0700

Harald-

I think it's a fine idea.  Some of the discussions on the wgchairs
list have been very fruitful, IMO, and finding ways in which wg chairs
can draw on each other (at least socially, to start with) is probably
a Good Thing.

--aaron

---

From: "David R. Oran" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 13:32:09 -0400

If invited, I'd be happy to come. I'll even contribute to buying since it's 
really the WG chairs who owe the IESG members some libation in thanks for 
their monumental efforts.

Dave.

--On Monday, September 02, 2002 5:51 PM +0200 Harald Alvestrand 
<[email-masked]> wrote:

> If it's a Good Idea, we'll manage to schedule a room somehow; if it's a
> Bad Idea, we'd better get rid of it early.
>

-----------------------------------------------------------
David R. Oran                   Phone/Fax: +1 978 264 2048
Cisco Systems                   VoIP: +1 408 571 4576
7 Ladyslipper Lane              Email: [email-masked]
Acton, MA 01720

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From: David Meyer <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 10:01:27 -0700

good_idea++;

Dave

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From: Claudio Allocchio <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 22:40:21 +0100

> drink or five after the sessions one evening in Atlanta.

Yes it is a very good idea. In the Apps area we usually do it, and it is 
quite useful, expecially when you need to keep consistency between the 
same subject being worked out in different WGs. 

> Idea, we'd better get rid of it early.

Please do it.

I also agree on the idea af a minimal template for charters. The IESG 
does a very good job in trying to keep them consistent etc.. but it would 
help if there was something like a list of minimal topics to be filled in.
(Scope, Milestones, Related documents and RFC, related work in other 
organisations, proposed list of RFCs,... just as a 5 second list...)

Regards,
Claudio

---

From: Harald Alvestrand <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 08:07:11 +0200

--On onsdag, september 04, 2002 09:50:45 -0700 [email-masked] wrote:

> Harald, as you know, the apps area has been doing something along these
> lines for several years now. Experiecne there would indicate that it can
> be very helpful as long as it doesn't turn into WG inventory time.

I think the group of all chairs is probably too big to do anything 
all-together except presentations, and I don't think that is a worthwhile 
use of late-night time..... I was thinking of a free-form "socializing 
time".

I remember the plenary WG inventory meetings we used to have on Fridays 
(last one I remember is from San Diego, I think) - doing 100 WG reports 
boggles the mind....:-)

                Harald

---

From: Stephen Kent <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 10:15:31 -0400

>But - it might be a good idea.

Sounds like a great idea.  Count me in.

Steve

---

From: Ralph Droms <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 10:30:25 -0400

Sounds like a great idea; I would be pleased to attend...

- Ralph

---

From: Margaret Wasserman <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 09:59:07 -0400

I think that this is a fine idea, and I would probably attend.

IMO, a free-form, purely social party would be best, especially
since it won't start until ~10pm.

At some point, it might also be useful to consider more formal
WG chair meetings where we could discuss higher-level architectural 
and process questions that run across many WGs.  I don't know if it
would be best to do this all together, or by area -- does anyone
know how many WG chairs there are actually are?

Why are we moving away from holding meetings on Friday?

Margaret

---

From: Harald Alvestrand <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 16:16:36 +0200

> know how many WG chairs there are actually are?

checking my mirrors of the charter directories, and invoking the Power Of 
The Unix Command Line:
according to

according to

grep -C3 -h  "<h2>Chair" `find . -mtime -7` | grep "mailto" | sort -u | wc 
-l

there are 201, across 138 active working groups.
(without the sort -u there are 231 - so we have something like 30 chairs 
who chair more than one WG....)
Steve probably has more exact numbers.

> Why are we moving away from holding meetings on Friday?

Atlanta's an experiment. We couldn't get a good-looking hotel anywhere but 
Las Vegas that allowed us to hold meetings on Friday, so we decided to make 
a virtue out of a necessity and see what an IETF without Friday, and with 
evening Tuesday slot, "felt" like.

Some time after Atlanta, we will try to figure out whether we ever want to 
do that again....your opinions WILL be appreciated.

               Harald

---

From: Stephen Casner <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 08:14:34 -0700 (PDT)

> do that again....your opinions WILL be appreciated.

Wasn't it also the case that the decreasing quality and popularity of
the social event (the most recent being an exception) led several
people to question the use of Tuesday evening for that purpose?

                                                        -- Steve

---

From: Harald Alvestrand <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 18:01:44 +0200

> people to question the use of Tuesday evening for that purpose?

actually I expect more negative feedback from people who don't have Tuesday 
free for the OTHER things they are used to doing.

the IAB has already registered "upset" - they usually have a working dinner 
on Tuesday night (the discussion lasts longer than the food does..)

                     Harald

---

From: "James Kempf" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 10:35:20 -0700

Margaret,

> know how many WG chairs there are actually are?

Some areas, like Transport, have already started doing this.

> Why are we moving away from holding meetings on Friday?

Maybe Fri. would be a good time to have an all WG chairs meeting, or Area WG
meetings, or something like that. Though, it certainly is nice to have the
flexibility of flying home early on Fri.

            jak

PS to all: Party idea sounds great. I'm there if there is no conflict with other
activities.

---

From: RJ Atkinson <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 16:52:08 -0400

On Friday, Sep 6, 2002, at 12:01 America/Montreal, Harald Alvestrand 
wrote:
> the IAB has already registered "upset" - they usually have a working 
> dinner on Tuesday night (the discussion lasts longer than the food 
> does..)

I'd have inserted the word "mildly" before "upset" in the sentence 
above.
It is a bit of a challenge to find a new block of time for the IAB
working meeting, but we'll cope. :-)

Ran

---

From: Marc Blanchet <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 13:14:01 -0400

- would suggest to define upfront 2-3 topics to discuss, so the party is 
efficient and useful.
- timeslot is key. what about breakfast time, near the end of the week: 
thrusday breakfast?

Marc.

> But - it might be a good idea.

------------------------------------------
Marc Blanchet
Viagénie
tel: +1-418-656-9254x225

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From: Aaron Falk <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 11:17:34 -0700

How about Friday morning or lunch, possibly offsite?

--aaron

James Kempf wrote:
>
> Breakfasts are not good. IESG and IAB have breakfast meetings booked
> all week.
> 
> Thurs. night after the Plenary is possible.
> 
>             jak
>

---

From: "James Kempf" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 11:07:49 -0700

Breakfasts are not good. IESG and IAB have breakfast meetings booked all week.

            jak

---

From: Ralph Droms <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 14:44:07 -0400 (EDT)

I'm planning to leave as early as possible Friday, so I won't be able to
attend any meetings on Friday...

- Ralph

---

From: Andy Bierman <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 11:43:11 -0700

>How about Friday morning or lunch, possibly offsite?

please make the meeting/party between Sunday and Thursday.
Some of us are planning to fly out of there Friday morning,
because we were already told there wouldn't be meetings
on Friday.

>--aaron

Andy

---

From: Rob Austein <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 12:11:56 -0700

Scheduling for Atlanta is particularly tight.  After the plenary isn't
a great time, but it's probably about the best we're going to do.

---

From: "James Kempf" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 12:34:43 -0700

Lunch sometime, not necessarily Fri., would be OK. I think people will be ready
to head home by Fri.

            jak

---

From: avri doria <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 20:58:51 +0200

has anyone already suggested (or shot down) sometime sunday?
like maybe after the reception?

a.

---

From: Michael Mealling <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 15:43:49 -0400

> a great time, but it's probably about the best we're going to do.

Is it just Atlanta or is the "nothing on Friday at all" rule starting to
make it very difficult to actually schedule things during the week? I've
run into these scheduling problems in several other places and at this
point I'd rather opt for putting stuff on Fridays instead of trying to
cram everything into so few days... And I live here! ;-)

-MM

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From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 08:50:13 +0300

> like maybe after the reception?

dns directorate conflict