Subject: Re: Thinking about a party at the Atlanta party.....

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 10:19:06 -0400

There was a BOF at the meeting in March that talked about tools for use by 
WG chairs.  I found that meeting very helpful particularly in listening to 
other problems/challenges that WG chairs encounter.  Made me realize it 
"wasn't just me." 

Not everyone was at the BOF - but it was pretty full.  Based on the dialog 
that went on during that session - and since it was somewhat free-form, 
there was good dialog, I think meetings of all the WG chairs is a great 
idea.  It's got my vote.

Margaret Wasserman <[email-masked]>
Sent by: [email-masked]
09/06/2002 09:59

        To:     Harald Alvestrand <[email-masked]>
        cc:     [email-masked]
        Subject:        Re: Thinking about a party at the Atlanta party.....

I think that this is a fine idea, and I would probably attend.

IMO, a free-form, purely social party would be best, especially
since it won't start until ~10pm.

At some point, it might also be useful to consider more formal
WG chair meetings where we could discuss higher-level architectural 
and process questions that run across many WGs.  I don't know if it
would be best to do this all together, or by area -- does anyone
know how many WG chairs there are actually are?

Why are we moving away from holding meetings on Friday?

Margaret

At 11:51 AM 9/2/02, you wrote:
>Folks,
>an idea floated past the IESG on a recent telechat.
>We wondered if it would be a Good Idea to invite the WG Chairs over for a
>drink or five after the sessions one evening in Atlanta.
>
>If it's a Good Idea, we'll manage to schedule a room somehow; if it's a 
Bad
>Idea, we'd better get rid of it early.
>
>Atlanta has only long days (evening sessions Mon & Tue, plenaries Wed &
>Thu, no Friday), so it's going to start late, and not go on too long.
>
>But - it might be a good idea.
>What do people think?
>
>              Harald

---

From: gabriel montenegro <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 00:33:54 +0200

[email-masked] wrote:
> 
> There was a BOF at the meeting in March that talked about tools for use 
> by WG chairs.  I found that meeting very helpful particularly in 
> listening to other problems/challenges that WG chairs encounter.  Made 
> me realize it "wasn't just me."

This probably belong in the other thread on "consistency amongst WG's".
Something that I've noticed is pretty consistent for large and long-
standing WG's like IPsec or MobileIP is that the same issues keep
coming back time and time again. What I've seen that makes a huge
difference is an issue-tracking system. This usually requires one
very dedicated WG member, but it could be done with a collaboration
tool.

Also very consistent is that charter pages are typically laughably
out of date. Again, making them much more easily modifiable by
the WG chairs via a collaboration tool would solve this problem.

Perhaps the tool to enable the above could be provided by the IETF.
For example, currently there are some good tools in the form of
the mailman server to handle mailing lists in "ietf.org".

Another very useful server in ietf.org would be a Twiki
server (twiki.org) or any other such collaboration tool.

This could also be used to keep the WG page (perhaps
only an alternate "activity" page) much more up to date
(since it's much easier to modify), keeps archives, version control,
meeting minutes and presentations,  etc.

Instead of sending emails to the IESG after WG meetings with minutes
and presentations, an agreed-upon URL convention would do it.

Some WG' have the above facilities. But they're never consistent.

I realize any new server is more gear, sys admin time, expenses, etc.
But do think it's worth it.

-gabriel
ps - yes, the party, sounds good. ++1

---

From: "Lisa Dusseault" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:01:47 -0700

([email-masked], RE: Thinking about a party at the Atlanta party.....)
> meeting minutes and presentations,  etc.

I've been meaning to speak up about WebDAV and will grab this
opportunity.  

WebDAV is an IETF standard (RFC2518) for Web-based Distributed
Authoring. The DeltaV protocol (RFC3253) extends this standard to do
versioning, and the Access Control extensions (in IESG review) allow
clients to set access control settings on their WebDAV resources.
Together, these definitely meet the goals described above.

WebDAV itself is widely implemented and interoperable.  Some well-known
commercial implementors include Adobe, Apple (MacOSX), Macromedia,
Microsoft (Office, Web Folders, IIS5).  Open source implementations
include clients and servers, including the famous "mod_dav" for Apache.
Libraries exist for many programming languages (C, Java, perl, python).
See http://www.webdav.org/projects/ for a good listing.

If every working group had a WebDAV collection, and working group chairs
could administer that collection, there would at least be a common place
to collect working group files.  If the server hosting these collections
supported access control or a Web GUI with access control functions,
then permission could be granted to working group members to edit
specific documents. 

If you want to play with this, you can install mod_dav, or if you just
want to try client software, get a free WebdAV-enabled file sharing
account at http://www.sharemation.com.

Full disclosure: I am a WebDAV WG chair, I work for Xythos which makes a
WebDAV server and client, and Xythos runs the Sharemation test server. 

Lisa Dusseault

---

From: "Dean Willis" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 14:27:27 -0500

I have the mod-Dav load on the apache serving supporting the SIP,
SIPPING, and SIMPLE working group supplementary web sites and it does
seem to work reasonably well. There are a few flukes when using it with
the XP bult-in clients. We're just using it for simple file managemnt,
not as a locked file share for collaboration.

--
Dean

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] 
> [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Lisa Dusseault
> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 1:02 PM
> To: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
> Subject: WG tools: WebDAV 
> 
> 
> > Another very useful server in ietf.org would be a Twiki server 
> > (twiki.org) or any other such collaboration tool.
> > 
> > only an alternate "activity" page) much more up to date (since it's 
> > much easier to modify), keeps archives, version control, meeting 
> > minutes and presentations,  etc.
> 
> WebDAV is an IETF standard (RFC2518) for Web-based 
> Distributed Authoring. The DeltaV protocol (RFC3253) extends 
> this standard to do versioning, and the Access Control 
> extensions (in IESG review) allow clients to set access 
> control settings on their WebDAV resources. Together, these 
> definitely meet the goals described above.
> 
> WebDAV itself is widely implemented and interoperable.  Some 
> well-known commercial implementors include Adobe, Apple 
> (MacOSX), Macromedia, Microsoft (Office, Web Folders, IIS5).  
> Open source implementations include clients and servers, 
> including the famous "mod_dav" for Apache. Libraries exist 
> for many programming languages (C, Java, perl, python). See 
http://www.webdav.org/projects/ for a good listing.

Lisa Dusseault

---

From: "Chris Apple" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 14:56:22 -0400

I'd be up for drinks...

Chris Apple - Principal Architect

DSI Consulting, Inc.

mailto:[email-masked]

http://www.dsi-consulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf
Of gabriel montenegro
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 6:34 PM
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Thinking about a party at the Atlanta party.....

-gabriel