Subject: WG Chairs' training/information/resources?

From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 09:01:26 +0100

just because this came up on the problem-statement list and may be better 
fitted to this list:

we have had wg chairs' training lunches for many years now.
last IETF, we did it somewhat differently than before. People who showed up 
liked it, but most didn't.

we also did the wg chairs' party, which people seem to have liked 
more-or-less across the board.

and we have the wg chairs' resource page on the IETF web (which *I* can't 
find at the moment).

and we have this mailing list.

what more do we need, and how should we get it?
suggestions that have been floated by me at times:

- modify wgchairs training lunch into a "curriculum", run different parts 
of it across the 3 IETFs in a year, and encourage chairs (and 
chairs-to-be?) to show up at at least 3

- put more effort into making tools available to all chairs from the 
central secretariat (yes, this is about money too)

- focus on providing info on deltas in procedure (changes since last IETF) 
to WG chairs, either using this list or using workshops at the IETF or both

thoughts?

                Harald

---

From: "Randy Presuhn" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 07:46:50 -0800

Hi -

> From: "Harald Tveit Alvestrand" <[email-masked]>
> To: <[email-masked]>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 12:01 AM
> Subject: WG Chairs' training/information/resources?
...
> to WG chairs, either using this list or using workshops at the IETF or
both
...

A chronologically ordered list of procedure deltas would be a great addition
to the WG chairs resources page, but would probably be of wider interest.

Randy Presuhn

---

From: Margaret Wasserman <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 11:13:35 -0500

>chairs-to-be?) to show up at at least 3

I am in favor of a multi-session WG chairs training "curriculum", and would
be willing to contribute my own efforts to help construct and deliver this.
This should be focused at new chairs, or chairs returning after a lengthy
hiatus.  Over time, such a training program could help to improve the
quality of our WG sessions, and make the use of the process, process terms,
etc. more uniform between groups.

If I were constructing this program, I'd probably see three or four sessions
along the lines of:

         - Brass tacks and resources:  What are the practical things
                 you need to know to function in the role of WG chair?
                 What resources are available to help you?
                 (This has been the subject of past WG chairs trainings).
         - Understanding the IETF document process and terminology:
                 How/when do you submit documents to the IESG and what
                 happens then? (Having the WG chairs understand and
                 represent this process well could go a long way to
                 improving the public perception of this process.)
         - Managing the WG process to ensure that work output is
                 technically sound and useful:  What are the responsibilities
                 of a WG chair in these areas, and how can you ensure that
                 you meet them?  (We added some of this stuff in Atlanta,
                 but it did result in a time crunch in one session.)
         - Handling problems:  What can you do about problem people?
                 Group dynamics problems?  Editors who don't do their
                 jobs?  Etc.

>central secretariat (yes, this is about money too)

Yes!  It would be great to get some professional-level document tracking
and defect tracking tools, and to figure out how to apply those to the WGs.
Using consistent tools and methodologies makes it much easier for people
(ADs, chairs and contributors) to deal with multiple WG consistently,
move between groups without a loss of productivity, etc.

>to WG chairs, either using this list or using workshops at the IETF or both

Right.  I think that this should be separate from the training sessions for
new (or returning) WG chairs.  This is probably best handled via a mailing
list or occasional WG chairs meetings.

Some folks have also suggested that some formal training and/or resources for
document editors might be helpful.  This is a much looser role than WG chairs,
though, so it might be harder to reach the right audience with a formal 
session.

Margaret

---

From: avri doria <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 18:43:05 +0100

> though, so it might be harder to reach the right audience with a formal

as one of those who suggests this, i don't think it should be a looser
role then the role of WG chair.  the product of the IETF is, after all
is said and done, documents.  so while the WG Chairs control the process,
the editors control our product.  so i would actually argue that editor
training is as important, if not more important, then the WG training.

on another topic.  i am one of those who acts as both an editor and a
chair.  i handle this by deferring to my co-chair on all issues that
may involve conflict of interest.  i also have a standing offer to the
group to step down from one of the roles should it become an issue.
this was something i discussed with my AD before taking on the editorship.
as i was more concerned with the book then with the process at the time,
i would have gladly stepped down as co-chair, but the group and AD told
me not to bother.

and this brings up one more thought. we have been talking a lot about the
top down portion of our processes.  i think we give too little regard to
the bottom up aspects.  every successful project i have been involved in,
took both aspects into simultaneous regard.  i would like to see us find a
way to motivate a little more self leadership among the working groups.
e.g. i am not sure how, but i would not mind seeing a WG have some say,
advice and/or consent, in  the AD's choice of WG leadership.  how many
WG chairs have asked their WG groups, or at least the room, if there was
consensus on their remaining in the chair?  might be an interesting
exercise.

a.