Subject: Checking: who reads ietf-announce?

From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 09:18:20 -0800

for curiosity:

I'd like to poll the WG chairs as to how they read the ietf-announce mail?

[ ] Not subscribed to ietf-announce
[ ] Get it, file it, look at it occasionally
[ ] Get it, read the headlines
[ ] Read every word of every message, except I-D announces
[ ] Read EVERYTHING

Reason being that the question of "when have we announced something to the 
IETF community" comes up occasionally.
We've generally assumed that sending mail to ietf-announce + copying it to 
the appropriate working groups (when known) is "enough". This may be 
doubtful. And the WG chairs will just have to forgive me for making them 
stand in for "the people we really want to know about what we send out" in 
this case.

Please send poll responses to me, not to the list.... I'll summarize.

Thanks!

                   Harald

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From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 16:29:45 -0800

now that was an amazingly quick and accurate response - 57 rsponses in a 
few hours, and NOT ONE of them ended up on the list!!!!

Quite a few people read the list via the web interface, so the category 
"not subscribed" had to be redefined as "do not read" - I hope I did not do 
injustice to any of the 9 people left there!
>
> [9] Not subscribed to ietf-announce/do not read
> [8] Get it, file it, look at it occasionally
> [31] Get it, read the headlines
> [5] Read every word of every message, except I-D announces
> [4] Read EVERYTHING

So - if something has a compelling headline, the evidence is that it's 
likely that 40/57 - or 70% - of the WG chairs will "get the message" pretty 
soon. That's good! - but 15% won't get it, so we can't assume that 
*everyone* will know.

The recurring comment is "I-D announcements should go by themselves", 
including some people saying they'd resubscribe if that was the case; some 
also thought that document announcements should go elsewhere, but I'm not 
too sure of that - it's nice to see the product coming out....
I'll look into that - if anyone has a compelling argument that I-Ds should 
STAY on the ietf-announce list, they'd better make it soon.... of course, 
this is a more major change than tombstone handling, so needs 
announcing......

                       Harald

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From: "Randy Presuhn" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 16:59:24 -0800

Hi -

> From: "Harald Tveit Alvestrand" <[email-masked]>
> To: <[email-masked]>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 4:29 PM
> Subject: Re: Checking: who reads ietf-announce?
...
> this is a more major change than tombstone handling, so needs
...

I-D announcements need to go to *some* list (perhaps the wgchairs
list? :-) so that we can alert our WGs to relevant individual submissions.
Of all the stuff on the ietf-announce list, I-D announcements are the
most useful information (to me as a WG chair) that I wouldn't get
otherwise.

Randy

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From: Brian Haberman <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 20:11:17 -0500

> most useful information (to me as a WG chair) that I wouldn't get

How about a separate draft-announce list?  That seems to make the most
sense to me.  It allows people who find that info useful (me included)
to still get it and it offloeads the ietf-announce list for more
important notices.

Regards,
Brian

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From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 20:42:54 -0800

> most useful information (to me as a WG chair) that I wouldn't get

no question that i-d announcements need to go out.
the obvious suggestion is to create an "id-announce" list, initially with 
the same membership as the ietf-announce list, and send all the I-D 
announcements there....

---

From: Bob Hinden <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 06:05:30 -0800

>to still get it and it offloeads the ietf-announce list for more

I do something like this locally.  I subscribe to ietf-announce and filter
the ID announcements and what is left to a separate mailboxes.  Of the
remaining announce email, I scan the headers and read them selectively
depending on subject line.

Bob

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From: Derek Atkins <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:51:51 -0500

Harald Tveit Alvestrand <[email-masked]> writes:

> including some people saying they'd resubscribe if that was the case;
> some also thought that document announcements should go elsewhere, but
> I'm not too sure of that - it's nice to see the product coming out....
> I'll look into that - if anyone has a compelling argument that I-Ds
> should STAY on the ietf-announce list, they'd better make it
> soon.... of course, this is a more major change than tombstone
> handling, so needs announcing......

I just file the I-D announcements into a different folder from the
rest of ietf-announce so I can read the differently.  The headers on
i-d announcements are different than "normal" -announce mail so it's
relatively easy to separate them.

My (gnus) split looks like:

	 (any "internet-drafts@.*" "list.ietf.drafts")

>                        Harald

-derek

-- 
       Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
       Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board  (SIPB)
       URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/    PP-ASEL-IA     N1NWH
       [email-masked]                        PGP key available

---

From: Russ Allbery <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:40:43 -0800

Derek Atkins <[email-masked]> writes:

> I just file the I-D announcements into a different folder from the rest
> of ietf-announce so I can read the differently.  The headers on i-d
> announcements are different than "normal" -announce mail so it's

> 	 (any "internet-drafts@.*" "list.ietf.drafts")

Yeah, I use a somewhat more comprehensive version of the same idea:

    ("return-path" "owner-ietf-announce@ietf\\.org"
     (| ("subject" "Document Action" "lists.standards.ietf.actions")
        ("subject" "Protocol Action" "lists.standards.ietf.actions")
        ("subject" "I-D Action" "lists.standards.ietf.drafts")
        ("subject" "Last Call" "lists.standards.ietf.last-calls")
        ("subject" "RFC" "lists.standards.ietf.rfc")
        "lists.standards.ietf.announce"))

-- 
Russ Allbery ([email-masked])             <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

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From: Randall Gellens <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:32:21 -0800

At 9:18 AM -0800 12/10/03, Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote:

>  [ X] Get it, file it, look at it occasionally

Where "occasionally" increases in frequency as meeting approach.

Also, I filter I-D and RFC announcements to their own folders.

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From: Randall Gellens <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:34:38 -0800

>  depending on subject line.

Me too.  I filter I-D and RFC announcements to their own separate
folders, and leave what is left in my IETF-Announce folder.
-- 
Randall Gellens
Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
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