Subject: Tools team work items

From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:48:53 +0100

Hi,

    Below you'll find an ordered list of work items proposed by and for
the tools team.  We would very much like your comments on both the order
of the work items, and the content.  

The list of work items is also available at:
  http://tools.ietf.org/wiki/ToolPriorityList
which will be updated as comments come in.

Please send your comments to [email-masked] .

	Henrik

Summary list:
=============
   1. WG Status update web interface
   2. IETF Meta-information
   3. Components needed by multiple tools (e.g. TMDA? Plone? )
   4. WG Meeting scheduler
   5. Draft status pages (revs, diffs, comments)
   6. WG page components, provided to all WGs:
   7. Notification service - "mail me when this draft/charter changes"
   8. Html-ized WG agendas
   9. I-D tracker extended for use by Chairs
  10. Publication request tool
  11. RSS/Atom feeds for new IDs, RFCs, WGs, ...
  12. Proposed WG / Bof tools - web/wiki space

Detailed list:
==============

   1. WG Status update web interface
            [IESG, Secretariat, Chairs] This Web-based system will allow the WG chairs to manage their WG information directly. ADs will be able to approve the "to-be-updated information," where required, via a password protected Web interface.

   2. IETF Meta-information
            [Tool Builders] This covers at least information about IETF documents, participants, tasks, events. Most likely to stored in XML files and/or some kind of databases. We need to document what info is maintained/available.

   3. Components needed by multiple tools (e.g. TMDA? Plone? )
            [Tool Builders] This is a matter of identifying common tool infrastructure, such as for instance the email return verification provided by e.g. TMDA, and propose solutions which can be used/useful for multiple IETF tools, preferably in the form of existing open-source offerings

   4. WG Meeting scheduler
            [IESG, Secretariat, Chairs] This Web-based application will allow WG chairs, ADs, and the Secretariat to perform all tasks required to generate meeting schedules and agendas. All meeting requests will be submitted directly to the database (with AD approval, if required). A tentative meeting schedule will be generated based on the requested meeting sizes, times, dates, and conflicts to avoid, and the Secretariat will be able to modify the schedule, as needed. Finally, the application will generate a Web page where the WG chairs can submit their agendas. The Secretariat will create all three versions of the agenda (i.e., Word, text, and HTML) at the same time using this application.

   5. Draft status pages (revs, diffs, comments)
            [WGs, Chairs, Authors] This would provide draft status pages for all drafts of the kind currently provided for a limited number of workgroups on http://ietf.levkowetz.com/drafts/ - see for instance the 6to4-security draft page under the v6ops drafts area

   6. WG page components, provided to all WGs:
            [WGs, Chairs] 
          * Issue tracker, mailing list integration
          * Wiki
          * Collaboration pages
          * List traffic summary
    This would make a set of commonly used tools routinely available for all workgroups, and provide an interface to automatically set up and configure the set of tools for a new workgroup. Optionally, the creation of the set of tools for a new workgroup could be fully automatic, triggered by the appearance of meta-information about the new workgroup.

   7. Notification service - "mail me when this draft/charter changes"
            [Community] This provides a selective notification mechanism for general use, complementing the i-d-announce list

   8. Html-ized WG agendas
            [IETF attendees] This transforms ascii format WG agendas, as currently provided for the meetings, so that references to drafts, RFCs and URLs are rendered as HTML links, easily clickable by both those who prepare for a WG meeting, and those who browse the agenda while in a meeting

   9. I-D tracker extended for use by Chairs
            [Chairs, Authors, Secretariat] This would add new states to the I-D tracker, describing the state of drafts while still being in the hands of WGs. This tool would include an interface with restricted write capability, for use by WG chairs to update the draft status to reflect the WG work.

  10. Publication request tool
            [Secretariat, Chairs, Authors (Indep.)] This tool will allow the users to make requests to the IESG to publish existing IDs as RFCs. The IDs will be checked against the ID-nits, and if passed, the IDs will be automatically added to the ID Tracker, and the ADs and Secretariat will be notified.

  11. RSS/Atom feeds for new IDs, RFCs, WGs, ...
            [Tool Builders] This tool will generate RSS and Atom feeds (notifications) from the XML meta-information available for IDs, RFCs, WGs, etc., and provide a standardized alternative to the current i-d-announce and ietf-announce mailing lists. This format will make it possible for individuals and tool-builders to interface in a well-defined way with information from the ietf standards process.

  12. Proposed WG / Bof tools - web/wiki space
            [Community] This would provide tools similar to those provided for workgroups, but do so for BOFs and proposed workgroups.

---

From: "Joel M. Halpern" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:16:36 -0500

I think that at least some of item 6 is quite important.  Specifically, I 
think that having a problem tracker available to every working group easily 
would be a good idea.  At the moment, in spite of bugging two different 
people who have in good faith said that they provide such, I have been 
unable to get one for the WG I was trying to get to use one.  (That WG has 
other problems now.)  I think finding a way to make that service available 
without personal intervention and favors is probably hgher priority even 
than the automated scheduler, and MUCH easier.

Yours,
Joel

At 09:48 AM 11/17/2004, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>...
>     This would make a set of commonly used tools routinely available for 
> all workgroups, and provide an interface to automatically set up and 
> configure the set of tools for a new workgroup. Optionally, the creation 
> of the set of tools for a new workgroup could be fully automatic, 
> triggered by the appearance of meta-information about the new workgroup.

---

From: Aaron Falk <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:27:39 -0800

> Summary list:
 
Henrik-

Nice list.  A couple of additional suggestions:

- a way for wg chairs to put up meeting agendas themselves (up to the
  last minute).  Relying on secretariat support for this while they
  are working an IETF meeting seems not to work for understandable
  reasons.  Groups with late-changing agendas either don't have any
  agenda listed or one which is incorrect.  This seems fairly
  important to me and I'd put it near the top of the list.

- a place for wg chairs/presenters to drop presentation files (up to
  the last minute).  Currently this is done very adhoc, if at all.
  It's worth noting that Lisa Dusseault is making a webdav space
  available for this purpose (see her recent note to the IETF list).
  I haven't played with it enough to say whether I think that is the
  best long term solution or whether it needs some additional
  development.  Since Lisa has a tool out there, I don't see this as
  urgent but it should probably be on the list so it can be
  evaluated. 

--aaron

---

From: Paul Hoffman / VPNC <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:17:05 -0800

>   important to me and I'd put it near the top of the list.

+1. The folks running the meeting have enough minute-to-minute hotel 
issues to deal with.

>   urgent but it should probably be on the list so it can be

+1. This would allow chairs at the beginning of the meeting to say 
"go look *here* for the slides" and know they're available to 
everyone. This might help prevent some of the picture-taking of the 
screen (might not, of course). It also will help alleviate "could you 
go back three slides, I'm not sure I understood it" style questions.

--Paul Hoffman, Director
--VPN Consortium

---

From: Bill Sommerfeld <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 18:50:39 -0500

one possibly missing piece: a change control repository for document
.xml sources (ideally including a cvsweb-like history/change browser). 
"sourceforge for IETF".  use would of course be optional..

---

From: "Steven M. Bellovin" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 18:57:36 -0500

>go back three slides, I'm not sure I understood it" style questions.

This is important.  Something I've done in venues that are more 
connectivity-challenged than the IETF is to set up a dumb web server 
(bozohttpd) on my laptop, precisely to make it easy for people to 
download copies of my presentation.  Admittedly, the way I do this 
isn't available to everyone; it would be nice, however, if the 
essential functionality were.  (The cynic in me is fond of pointing out 
that if people would prepare their talks ahead of time, this would be 
much less of an issue.  The practical side of me notes that I'm at 
least as fond of last-minute preparation as the next guy...)

		--Steve Bellovin, http://www.research.att.com/~smb

---

From: Lisa Dusseault <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:08:23 -0800

There's rudimentary version history available if you turn it on, for 
documents at http://ietf.webdav.org.  For example, click on the 'info' 
button for the XML file in this collection: 
http://ietf.webdav.org/xythoswfs/webui/caldav/

Diffs must be done manually and locally or presumably somebody could 
set up a separate site.

Lisa

---

From: Aaron Falk <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:19:17 -0800

> "sourceforge for IETF".  use would of course be optional..

I like this idea.

--aaron

---

From: Rohan Mahy <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:28:47 -0800

> "sourceforge for IETF".  use would of course be optional..

A handful of folks active in the SIP community have been using the 
subversion repository at sipfoundry.org to store the XML source for our 
drafts. Using CVS or SVN makes shared editing much easier, and also 
allows someone with lots of comments to checkout a copy, edit the 
source and either send a patch to the editor or just check in their 
proposed changes.  It also means that anyone with authorization 
(usually everyone) can *read* the source of these documents.  I 
consider this a great feature.

thanks,
-rohan

---

From: Rohan Mahy <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:38:40 -0800

Oh yeah,

One last thing.  In order to get write access to a particular project 
on sipfoundry, the contributor needs to agree to the license terms of 
that particular project.  For the "internet-drafts" project, that 
license is RFC 3667.  That way, when someone checks in text, there are 
no questions about compliance with the IETF boilerplate, contributor 
IPR disclosures, etc..

thx,
-r

On Nov 17, 2004, at 17:28, Rohan Mahy wrote:

> subversion repository at sipfoundry.org to store the XML source for 
> our drafts. Using CVS or SVN makes shared editing much easier, and 
> also allows someone with lots of comments to checkout a copy, edit the

---

From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:18:53 +0100

Aaron,

	Thanks --

>   important to me and I'd put it near the top of the list.

This is indeed intended to be part of the "WG Meeting Scheduler" item,
see the detailed description for that.

>   urgent but it should probably be on the list so it can be

Ok, point taken. This would fit in either the "WG Meeting Scheduler"
item, the "WG page" item, or both.

---

From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:21:57 +0100

> "sourceforge for IETF".  use would of course be optional..

It was conceived that something like this would be part of the
"Draft Status Pages" item - I'm adding a clarification on the Wiki.

	Henrik

---

From: Alex Rousskov <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:58:15 -0700 (MST)

> "Draft Status Pages" item - I'm adding a clarification on the Wiki.

Clarification: There are two very useful and totally separate items 
here, IMO:

   1) Draft status page with diffs for posted draft versions.

   2) IETF-forge: sourceforge-like functionality to allow IETF
      authors and WGs to concurrently edit drafts, post presentations,
      etc., all without Secretariat involvement/assistance.

Neither is limited to XML sources, of course.

Both are already on the list, but I do not think the second one was 
documented explicitly enough in item 6 "WG page components, provided 
to all WGs". It may be more appropriately named "WG site components".

IMO, we should provide IETF-forge sites for individual IETF drafts as 
well. Disk space is cheap. Good software scales well.

Thank you,

Alex.

P.S. Hmm... Once most WGs use IETF-forge to edit drafts, folks may
      start looking for most recent versions on IETF-forge pages
      instead of official IETF archives. Not sure whether that is
      a problem and how to address it.