Subject: Steps to take to remove posting rights

From: Gonzalo Camarillo <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 14:24:45 +0300

Hi,

the SIPPING mailing list has been receiving conference announcements 
from the following email address for a while:

Chantal Ladouce <[email-masked]>

We have warned him several times that he should not send that type of 
advertisement to the mailing list (some folks complained about him), but 
he has ignored us continuously.

I would like to remove his posting rights. What are the steps I should 
take in order to do that? I guess I should inform someone before going 
ahead block him in the administrative interface of the mailing list, right?

Additionally, I know that other chairs have faced the same problem with 
the same person. Please, let me know if you are one of them.

Thanks,

Gonzalo

---

From: Henk Uijterwaal <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 13:28:14 +0200

Hi,

>We have warned him several times that he should not send that type 
>of advertisement to the mailing list (some folks complained about 
>him), but he has ignored us continuously.

Chantal is a girl's name, so it is probably a she.

>I would like to remove his posting rights. What are the steps I 
>should take in order to do that? I guess I should inform someone 
>before going ahead block him in the administrative interface of the 
>mailing list, right?
>
>Additionally, I know that other chairs have faced the same problem 
>with the same person. Please, let me know if you are one of them.

She posts conference announcements on the IPPM mailing lists, these
events are vaguely related to that group though I doubt many people
will attend because of these announcements.  We haven't had any complaints
yet.

Henk

>Gonzalo

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Henk Uijterwaal                           Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net
RIPE Network Coordination Centre          http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk
P.O.Box 10096          Singel 258         Phone: +31.20.5354414
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1160438400. Watch this space...

---

From: "Michael Sneed" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:27:22 -0500

These guys would spam adslmib regularly after subscribing.  I would send 
them a warning email which would be ignored. I would flag them as moderated, 
and they would resubscribe with another address and spam again.  Their spam 
was completely unrelated to the work of adslmib.  Eventually they must have 
given up and moved on to greener pastures, as I haven't seen them for a 
while.

>From: Henk Uijterwaal <[email-masked]>
>To: Gonzalo Camarillo <[email-masked]>,Working Group Chairs 
><[email-masked]>
>CC: Jon Peterson <[email-masked]>
>Subject: Re: Steps to take to remove posting rights
>Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 13:28:14 +0200
>
>Hi,
>
>
>>the SIPPING mailing list has been receiving conference announcements from 
>>the following email address for a while:
>>

---

From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:06:21 +0200

Consult your AD is the short answer. RFC 3934 applies.

     Brian

Henk Uijterwaal wrote:
>> advertisement to the mailing list (some folks complained about him), 
>> but he has ignored us continuously.
> 
>

---

From: "Steven M. Bellovin" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 12:17:34 -0500

> the same person. Please, let me know if you are one of them.

What is upperside.fr?  From their web page, they seem to be a
conference company?  A couple of years ago, I had to bar "Peter Lewis"
-- I wonder if that's a real person or just a role address -- for the
same offense, repeated postings of conference announcements.  (Well, I
do see a picture of Ladouce on their web site, so maybe she's real.)
I know it's against our polices, but it's *so* tempting to bar the
entire domain...

		--Steven M. Bellovin, http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb

---

From: Thomas Heide Clausen <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 20:04:15 +0200

On 30 Mar 2006, at 19:17, Steven M. Bellovin wrote:

>> with

Not sure if I am adding anything of value, but here goes....

They are a company, alright (in as much as "making profits" seems their 
objective), but I am not so sure if "trade show" doesn't apply more 
than "conference" -- at least, it's far from conferences in an academic 
sense, where the objective should be something along the lines of 
"fostering progress & exchange of scientific ideas".

I've crossed paths with them once when a student of mine submitted and 
had accepted a paper to one of their events, and proceeded to make 
(non-refundable) travel reservations...only to have upperside cancel 
the event just a few days prior to when it was to start -- apparently, 
too few had signed up for the "conference" to be profitable to the 
company. From that, I know that Peter Lewis *is*, or at least was, a 
real person within the company. (From that, I also got my personal 
email address permanently added added to their "spam-list", it would 
seem)

They also regularly spam the MANET wg list, and a few others that I 
follow -- both within the IETF and otherwise -- with peripherally 
on-topic and often off-topic such "conferences".

--thomas

---

From: Cullen Jennings <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 16:19:23 -0800

Hi Gonzalo, 

We could go the RFC 3934 route though we would have to discuss it it was
appropriate. It is only a 30 day suspension so the effort may be more than
the gain. It certainly sounds like a hard route to me. I've got an
alternative hair brain proposal that we might consider....

Let's phone someone at http://www.upperside.fr/home/aboutus/aboutus.htm
And point out that their conferences make money basically be people from our
type of companies getting presentation from presenters that include many
IETF people. I notice some familiar looking names on
http://www.upperside.fr/intersip05/sip2005committee.htm :-) If you are sick
of their email on the lists, I'm personally willing to tell the people I
know that I'm not going to their conferences until they stop spamming IETF
lists and they should consider doing the same. We could point out that none
of the competitors are sending spam to the lists. If they agree they should
not send stuff to the ietf lists, we could ask them if they would like the
ietf list admins to just block their posts so that they don't have to go to
any of the bother of updating their email lists.

I'm basically trying to move the spam to have a negative economic value
instead of positive. This seems like it has some chance of resolving the
issue so we might try it first. This could be as simple as no one at the
right level in upperside realizes that many of the list users consider this
inappropriate use of the lists.

Does anyone know Remi or Michel at upperside? Would they be willing to have
a non antagonistic conversation with them and see if they know this is
causing some angst?

Cullen 

PS  - How is that CONSENT framework for forwarding lists going :-)

---

From: "Steven M. Bellovin" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 19:45:01 -0500

> a non antagonistic conversation with them and see if they know this is
Given how studiously they've ignored requests to stop over the years --
up to and including being banned from several WG mailing lists; I know
because I was the chair -- I see absolutely no reason to think that
that would help.  Maybe, just maybe, they'd listen to a note from Brian
saying "stop because you're pissing off your audience".  Frankly,
though, I doubt it.