Subject: Issue trackers integration

From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 20:56:06 +0200

Hi,

In November, before IETF-70, we briefly discussed issue trackers.  I've
meanwhile done some more work on the integration of the issue trackers on
tools.ietf.org with the WG status pages, and would like comments on the
new features from those who are using the issue trackers:

 * If there are open issues associated with a document, there is now an
   indication of the number of open issues, with a link to the issue list,
   on the WG draft status page.  An example from HTTPBIS:

	http://tools.ietf.org/wg/httpbis/

 * On request from one of the mpls-chairs, Loa Andersson, I also have
   added the ability to use the tracker to set (and show) a state
   annotation based on an issue tracker entry.  If you add an issue of
   type 'state' or 'task', and set 'Severity' to one of the states

	Candidate WG Document
	Waiting for Expert Review
	In WG Last Call
	Waiting for Shepherd Writeup
	Submitted WG Document
	Dead WG Document

   then the latest annotation of that type will also show up on the status
   summary page.  An example from MIP4:

	http://tools.ietf.org/wg/mip4/

   (the document draft-ietf-mip4-generic-notification-message is in state
    'In WG Last Call')

 * If the tracker is set to send Cc:s of all new issues to the WG mailing
   list (which is the case by default) then entering the last call text
   as an issue will also result in the last call going to the list, which
   seems neat to me, but I don't know what you'll think.

I plan to also update the individual draft status pages so that the same
status and ticket count information will be shown there; but that isn't
in place yet, and I'd like to get reactions to what I've done so far before
I carry on with that step ;-)

Regards,

	Henrik

---

From: Dean Willis <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 13:43:14 -0500

> 	http://tools.ietf.org/wg/httpbis/

Awesome!

>  seems neat to me, but I don't know what you'll think.

Seems harmless, although there are usually more instructions in a last  
call than I expect fit well into the tracker.

> I carry on with that step ;-)

I seem to recall you sent out a link to the tracker itself, but  
looking around the tools page, I don't seem to find any links to it.  
Perhaps it could be made easier to find? Maybe linking it from http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ 
  or even from the per-wg status page (ex: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/mip4/)?

--
Dean

---

From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2008 22:02:15 +0200

> On Apr 5, 2008, at 1:56 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
...
>> 	http://tools.ietf.org/wg/httpbis/

Oh, good :-)

...
> call than I expect fit well into the tracker.

Ok.  But what about this: 
  http://tools.ietf.org/wg/mip4/trac/ticket/4

...
>   or even from the per-wg status page (ex: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/mip4/)?

It's there -- in the top menu, there's 'Issues'.  Suggestions for other
menu item names, or other ways to do this (per WG, since the trackers are
set up per WG) are welcome.

	Henrik

---

From: "Dan Wing" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 15:03:40 -0700

> It's there -- in the top menu, there's 'Issues'.  Suggestions 
> for other menu item names,

The column header for the open tickets and status is "Comments, Tickets", so
how about using "Tickets" as the menu item name (instead of the current
"Issues").

-d

> or other ways to do this (per WG, 
> since the trackers are set up per WG) are welcome.

---

From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 00:14:15 +0200

On 2008-04-08 00:03 Dan Wing said the following:
...
> how about using "Tickets" as the menu item name (instead of the current

Works for me.  Others?

	Henrik

---

From: Dean Willis <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 02:57:12 -0500

On Apr 7, 2008, at 3:02 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>> Seems harmless, although there are usually more instructions in a  
>> last  call than I expect fit well into the tracker.
>
> Ok.  But what about this:  http://tools.ietf.org/wg/mip4/trac/ticket/4

I must admit, that looks pretty good.

>> looking around the tools page, I don't seem to find any links to  
>> it.  Perhaps it could be made easier to find? Maybe linking it from http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ 

I haven't found "Issues" After looking some more at http://tools.ietf.org/wg/mip4/ 
, I found one marked "Tickets", which never entered my cognitive map  
as being associated with a state tracker. It's more like something I  
get issued by the traffic police when I drive to fast or need to buy  
to go to a concert. I guess I thought they were selling tickets for ad- 
hoc meetings or MIP social events. Really.

But when I look at: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/sip/, there's no  
"Tickets" link, nor is there an "Issues". I take it such appears when  
a tracker is initiated for the working group?

--
Dean

---

From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 11:01:40 +0200

Hi Dean,

...

> as being associated with a state tracker.

Sorry, someone else suggested 'Tickets' instead, and I tested it to see how
it looked and failed to revert till we had some consensus.  Going back to
'Issues' for now.

> It's more like something I  

Yes.  My plan was to roll this out to everyone once I had an indication that
people were OK with this stuff, and I was through tinkering.

I've now added Sip, taking the above as a request :-)

	Henrik

---

From: Mark Nottingham <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 10:21:28 +1000

Just to chime in from the HTTPBIS perspective --

The tracker has been working well for us; we've been using it for  
about six months, with six authors working on eight documents.

The only improvements I can suggest are:

* Upgrade to Trac 0.11. There are several features that look  
attractive; especially customisable workflows, which would allow us to  
reflect when a change has consensus, but still needs to be integrated  
by the editors. AIUI we're waiting for it to go final and be included  
in the OS packaging, which is sensible. However, that may take some  
time; 0.11 has been in beta for some time, and AIUI our chosen OS has  
a very slow release process.

* The menu bar on the main page (e.g., <http://tools.ietf.org/wg/httpbis/ 
 > and the Trac-driven pages (e.g., <http://tools.ietf.org/wg/httpbis/trac/wiki 
 >) isn't consistent, and can confuse users. If we upgrade to 0.11,  
this may help: <http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/TracNavigation>.

To be clear, those are minor nits; we're very happy with the system as  
it is. Thanks, Henrik!

Cheers,

---

From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 07:10:22 +0200

Hi Mark,

On the suggestions below:

> a very slow release process.

I'm running Debian testing, rather than stable, so it's not quite as
bad as it would be for stable, but it's still a valid point.  The
upcoming 0.11 release has some stuff which it would be really good to
have, so I'll see what can be done (including nudging the Debian
maintainer and / or installing it by hand) once it's been released.

> this may help: <http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/TracNavigation>.

Yes, I agree.  I've fiddled with the current Trac templates to maybe
get something better, but it hasn't looked good ,;-)  And since the
templating system is changing with 0.11, I don't feel like spending a lot
of time on it before 0.11.  So again , getting to 0.11 would be good.

> To be clear, those are minor nits; we're very happy with the system as  

You're welcome :-)

	Henrik

---

From: "Dan Wing" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 09:20:40 -0700

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] 
> [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Henrik Levkowetz
> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 2:02 AM
> To: Dean Willis
> Cc: WG Chairs
> Subject: Re: Issue trackers integration
> 
> Hi Dean,
> 
> > , I found one marked "Tickets", which never entered my 
> > cognitive map as being associated with a state tracker.
> 
> it looked and failed to revert till we had some consensus.  
> Going back to 'Issues' for now.

How about leaving it as 'Issues', but in the Working Group Documents
section, changing the existing header "Comments, Tickets" to 
"Comments, Tickets, Issues".

-d

---

From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 23:21:46 +0200

> "Comments, Tickets, Issues".

You're right, it's inconsistent now.  I'll change it to Comments, Issues;
mentioning both Tickets and Issues looks like those are different entries
in the tracker (or something of that sort).

	Henrik

---

From: Eric Burger <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:53:12 -0400

Since we are back to getting an unreasonable/reasonable amount of spam in
our inboxes, i.e., the spam notification e-mails, could we do one thing to
help reduce the pain?

Is it possible to let the cookie stay active for, say, a week?  One of the
pains is logging in EVERY time to clear the backlog.

I know, we should be happy to enter the password every time, as this is such
a security issue, and we all use public computers  ;-)

Notice:  This email message, together with any attachments, may contain information  of  BEA Systems,  Inc.,  its subsidiaries  and  affiliated entities,  that may be confidential,  proprietary,  copyrighted  and/or legally privileged, and is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity named in this message. If you are not the intended recipient, and have received this message in error, please immediately return this by email and then delete it.

---

From: "David Harrington" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:58:52 -0400

Hi,

I get one email a day summarizing the possible-spam that has been
caught and awaits approval. The subject lines are included in the
email, so it is easy to see if the emails are spam. I do not find this
to be in any way onerous.

I don't know what level of spam you are getting. Are you using the
avialable options to control your notifications?

dbh

> [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Eric Burger
> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:53 PM
> To: 'WG Chairs'
> Subject: Thought on Spam
> 
> Notice:  This email message, together with any attachments, 
> may contain information  of  BEA Systems,  Inc.,  its 
> subsidiaries  and  affiliated entities,  that may be 
> confidential,  proprietary,  copyrighted  and/or legally 
> privileged, and is intended solely for the use of the 
> individual or entity named in this message. If you are not 
> the intended recipient, and have received this message in 
> error, please immediately return this by email and then delete it.
>

---

From: "Spencer Dawkins" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:11:30 -0500

Backing up slightly...

> caught and awaits approval.

Did we ever say "thank you" for getting rid of the double notifications?

"Thank you"

Every small victory is a victory.

Spencer, who always logs in nanoseconds after Eric has cleared the queue for 
MEDIACTRL...

---

From: James M Galvin <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:20:22 -0400

This "Thank You" goes to Glen, not me, who I have added cc'ed to 
this message.

Jim

-- On Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:11 PM -0500 Spencer Dawkins 
<[email-masked]> wrote regarding Re: Thought on Spam --

---

From: James M Galvin <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:30:44 -0400

-- On Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:53 PM -0400 Eric Burger 
<[email-masked]> wrote regarding Thought on Spam --

> Is it possible to let the cookie stay active for, say, a week?
> One of the pains is logging in EVERY time to clear the backlog.

I presume you mean the Mailman cookie that is used to manage your 
access to the "moderation queue" once you've given your password.

You can make the suggestion to "[email-masked]" but I 
wouldn't be too hopeful.  Making the suggestion will get it on the 
wish list.

This is a Mailman issue, not a web server issue, as far as I know. 
In general, I wouldn't expect the Secretariat to make local changes 
to "off-the-shelf" software.

It is possible to deal with this issue locally though.  Once you've 
decided it's okay to have a long-lived cookie, you must also be 
okay with pre-filled forms.  Most modern browsers support 
pre-filling forms.  This still leaves you with one click to get it 
in.

To get rid of the last click you need to keep the "window" open to 
the queue across sessions.  Again, many modern browsers allow you 
to keep multiple open windows (or tabs) and to have them re-open 
automatically when restarted.

I do this for one of my mailing lists.  I haven't entered my 
password in quite some time.

Jim

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:40:48 -0400

+1 --David 

> [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of James M Galvin
> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 4:20 PM
> To: Spencer Dawkins
> Cc: 'WG Chairs'; Glen Barney
> Subject: Re: Thought on Spam
>

---

From: Eric Burger <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:50:59 -0400

The onerous part is the opposite direction: finding the one or two real
posts in ~8 - 10 spam messages.

Is that too much?  No, but I'm looking to make my life easier.

---

From: Eric Burger <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:54:44 -0400

In the "old" days I tried the fill-in-the-form approach.  However, I
moderate 5 lists, and my browser thought all of the mailman pages were the
same site.

---

From: James M Galvin <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:13:22 -0400

-- On Tuesday, April 22, 2008 4:54 PM -0400 Eric Burger 
<[email-masked]> wrote regarding Re: Thought on Spam --

> In the "old" days I tried the fill-in-the-form approach.
> However, I moderate 5 lists, and my browser thought all of the
> mailman pages were the same site.

Yes, this is an issue because Mailman only takes a password. 
There's no "login" to demux the pages.

Actually, I can remember using a browser where the passwords were 
stored by URL, not site.  Maybe this was Opera?  I found this 
annoying when sites would change the actual location of the login 
URL because then the pre-filled form never worked.  Can't win, eh?

Using the same password on all the lists will work, if that's an 
option.  Otherwise, yes, it is awkward.

Jim

---

From: Tom Taylor <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 19:21:09 -0400

I just solved the same problem the other day. Mailman now distinguishes between 
administrator and moderator access (don't know when that happened). Anyway, I 
made the moderator password the same for both my lists. Given that my browser 
wants double log-in to each list for some reason, this was a decidedly 
simplifying measure.

---

From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 09:30:28 +0200

Hi,

I've sent Glen at AMS a patch for the Mailman login page template which
should give disambiguation between both different lists and admin/moderator.

	Henrik