Subject: mailing list archives

From: Cullen Jennings <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 14:54:29 -0700

Something weird seems to be going on with the archives and I don't  
have enough data points to figure out if it is just stuff that was set  
up wrong in the past or if something changes. Can folks look at your  
lists that are at ietf.org and see if

1) did public archives somehow get turned into private achieves ? This  
might have happened for at least one I know of

2) do the archives still exist for the list

Thanks, Cullen

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Dan Wing" <[email-masked]>
> Date: May 12, 2008 2:02:08 PM PDT
> To: <[email-masked]>, "'Jon Peterson'" <[email-masked]>,  
> "'Cullen Jennings \(fluffy\)'" <[email-masked]>
> Subject: rai-discuss archives
>
> RAI-Discuss list owners:
>
> At https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rai-discuss, it says:
>
>  To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the Rai- 
> discuss
>  Archives. (The current archive is only available to the list  
> members.)
>
> Although I am a member of rai-discuss (and logged into mailman) I  
> cannot view
> the archives -- when I go to
> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rai-discuss/current/index.html  
> I only see
> the attached.
>
> What's up with rai-discuss archives?
>
> -d

---

From: Eric Rescorla <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 15:04:40 -0700

At Mon, 12 May 2008 14:54:29 -0700,
Cullen Jennings wrote:
> 
> [1  <text/plain; US-ASCII (7bit)>]
> 

This seems to be the story for [email-masked],

"To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the TLS
Archives. (The current archive is only available to the list members.)"

that doesn't seem right.

-Ekr

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 18:02:18 -0400

Aside from some spam in the archives (spurt on Feb 1, then
a few messages occasionally since then), my 3 lists are ok.

Thanks,
--David
----------------------------------------------------
David L. Black, Distinguished Engineer
EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA  01748
+1 (508) 293-7953             FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786
[email-masked]        Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754
----------------------------------------------------

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] 
> [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Cullen Jennings
> Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 5:54 PM
> To: Working Group Chairs
> Cc: Dan Wing
> Subject: mailing list archives
> 
>

---

From: "Brian Rosen" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 18:03:44 -0400

P2psip looks okay

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf
Of Cullen Jennings
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 5:54 PM
To: Working Group Chairs
Cc: Dan Wing
Subject: mailing list archives

Thanks, Cullen

---

From: "Dan Wing" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 15:15:15 -0700

> From: Cullen Jennings [mailto:[email-masked]] 
> Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 2:54 PM
> To: Working Group Chairs
> Cc: Dan Wing

It appears to have happened to SIP, SIPPING, and TSVWG -- and others:
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg

but a few are still available to all:
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2psip
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsv-area

Thanks for noticing other lists had been affected.

-d

---

From: Marshall Eubanks <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 18:34:15 -0400

On May 12, 2008, at 5:54 PM, Cullen Jennings wrote:

> have enough data points to figure out if it is just stuff that was  
> set up wrong in the past or if something changes. Can folks look at  
> your lists that are at ietf.org and see if
>
> 1) did public archives somehow get turned into private achieves ?  
> This might have happened for at least one I know of
>

Mboned and Fecframe both seem to be OK.

Marshall

---

From: "Mary Barnes" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 20:19:13 -0500

I'm not sure what the source of the problem is. If you access the
archives from the working group page on the main IETF page, things are
fine:
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sipping/current/maillist.html

So, the problem is with the mailman page. I get the same private
archives (which only have May 2008) for SIPPING if I access it from the
administrative interface.  It looks like we need to open a ticket.  Do
we need to do one per each affected WG? 

Mary. 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On
Behalf Of Dan Wing
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 5:15 PM
To: 'Cullen Jennings'; 'Working Group Chairs'
Subject: RE: mailing list archives

-d

> > cannot view the archives -- when I go to
> >

---

From: "Dan Wing" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 18:27:13 -0700

> From: Mary Barnes [mailto:[email-masked]] 
> Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 6:19 PM
> To: Dan Wing; Cullen Jennings; Working Group Chairs

Yeah, that's a different URL.

And I see that rai-discuss and tsv-area aren't accessible that way,
because they are not working groups.

-d

---

From: "Mary Barnes" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 20:37:31 -0500

Actually, you can get to tsv-area:
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/tsv-area/current/maillist.html
But for some reason rai-discuss is empty. 

It's not clear to me why there are different links in the first place.
For the groups that are okay, the archive links doesn't point to
mailman, it points to mail-archive.  

Does anyone know when this problem started?  Should the WGs have mailman
archives versus the mail-archives that seem to work? 

Mary. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Wing [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 8:27 PM
To: Barnes, Mary (RICH2:AR00); 'Cullen Jennings'; 'Working Group Chairs'
Subject: RE: mailing list archives

-d

> archives (which only have May 2008) for SIPPING if I access it from 
> the administrative interface.  It looks like we need to open a ticket.

> Do we need to do one per each affected WG?
> 
> Mary. 
>

---

From: James M Galvin <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 23:47:34 -0400

I'm responding to Cullen's message but let me say first that, 
notwithstanding how things appear, I did not see any issues with 
any list archives mentioned in this thread except rai-discuss.

For everyone else, the thing you have to realize is that the IETF 
does not use the Mailman archiving system.  Thus, while you can set 
the Mailman archiving option on the administrative pages, which 
will result in Mailman keeping some archives, these archives are 
not the official archives of the IETF.  Setting the option is 
simply a duplication of effort.

What some folks are seeing is that when you set the Mailman option 
for a private archive, Mailman adds an "informative" message to the 
listinfo page saying there's a private archive.  While it's true 
that Mailman is keeping this private archive, it serves no useful 
purpose except to double disk usage.

IETF mailing list archives are all found here:

    http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/text/LISTNAME
    http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/LISTNAME

Note that this independent archive system has existed at the IETF 
for a very long time, way before Mailman was installed.  The 
"issue" is that when Mailman was installed nobody bothered to try 
and integrate the existing archive system into Mailman.

I believe I understand how to do this now.  I have a little bit 
more testing to do but, if successful, we can make this apparent 
confusion go away.  If it works, the Mailman options will work as 
expected and Mailman will use the external system.

In the meantime, please take note of where your archives are 
supposed to be and feel free to double check that those archives 
are correct.

The problem with rai-discuss is that the list does not have the 
archives subscribed to it.  You see, the way this external system 
was "added" to Mailman was to create two special email addresses 
for each mailing list, one for each type of archive.  These 
addresses are then subscribed to the mailing list.  As long as they 
remain as subscribers then everything works.

It seems that for rai-discuss these special subscribers do not 
exist and are not subscribers to the list.  Thus, the archive is 
empty.

If anybody has back messages and can make those available to me I 
will add them to the archive so it is complete.

Other than that, I've asked to have the special aliases created and 
I'll get them subscribed to the list so that all future messages 
are archived.

I'm sorry Cullen but I have no explanation for why these archive 
aliases were neither created nor added to the list of subscribers.

Jim

-- On Monday, May 12, 2008 2:54 PM -0700 Cullen Jennings 
<[email-masked]> wrote regarding mailing list archives --

>
> Something weird seems to be going on with the archives and I
> don't have enough data points to figure out if it is just stuff
> that was set up wrong in the past or if something changes. Can
> folks look at your lists that are at ietf.org and see if
>
> > To: <[email-masked]>, "'Jon Peterson'"
> > <[email-masked]>,   "'Cullen Jennings \(fluffy\)'"
> > <[email-masked]>
> >  To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the
> >  Rai-  discuss
> > Although I am a member of rai-discuss (and logged into mailman)
> > I   cannot view
> > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rai-discuss/current/index.
> > html   I only see
> > the attached.
> >

---

From: "Dan Wing" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 21:02:48 -0700

Thanks for your detailed response!

-d

> [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of James M Galvin
> Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 8:48 PM
> To: Cullen Jennings; Working Group Chairs
> Cc: Dan Wing
> Subject: Re: mailing list archives
>

---

From: Cullen Jennings <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 08:32:46 -0700

Thanks - I think I understand better now.

The way I typically get to mailing list archives was to got to the  
mailman pages (such at https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip)  
then click on the archive link from there. That used to take me to the  
right place but now it does not. It's not a high priority but it would  
probably be good to fix this link for all the pages or at least remove  
the link so people don't end up at the wrong place. In the meantime,  
I'll change the way I find archives.

Cullen

---

From: Dean Willis <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 04:26:42 -0500

> 2) do the archives still exist for the list

It's because the base link you're using isn't pointing to where where  
the archive is stored.

For example, the link you used was on the page:

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rai-discuss

The "archive" link there points to:

although it should point to:

http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rai-discuss/index.html

and the real archive is at:

http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rai-discuss/current/maillist.html

Oddly enough, the situation is different for SIP.

points at:

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/private/sip/ (which goes nowhere useful)

although the SIP archive is at:

http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sip/index.html

which apparently gets turned into:

http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sip/current/maillist.html

by the server. Some kind of server directive maybe?

--
Dean