Subject: Issue tracker roll-out

From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 22:34:54 +0200

Hi,

I'm now at a point where I feel comfortable rolling out issue trackers for
all WGs on tools.ietf.org, such as the one used by for instance the httpbis
WG, see:

    http://tools.ietf.org/wg/httpbis/trac
and
    http://tools.ietf.org/wg/httpbis/trac/report/1

Before doing this across the board I'd like to make sure that this is actually
wanted.  If you indicate that it's not wanted, I'll continue with the approach
I've used up to now, which is to roll out to newly formed working groups and
to others on request.  (Of course, even if I roll this out across the board,
it's completely up to each of you whether you will make use of the functionality
offered, for your WG.)

Gentlebeings, please let me know what your pleasure is in this respect.

Best,

	Henrik

---

From: Russ Housley <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 17:03:34 -0400

Henrik:

I think the best way to handle this it to let WG Chairs know that the 
tool is available for any WG that wants to make use of it.  Opt-in.

Russ

---

From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 23:34:11 +0200

Hi Russ,

> tool is available for any WG that wants to make use of it.  Opt-in.

Works for me.

So, everyone who is interested in this for their WG are welcome to let me
know, and I'll set it up.

Best,

	Henrik

---

From: Lars Eggert <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 09:04:55 +0300

> Gentlebeings, please let me know what your pleasure is in this  

We have already started to use them for TSVWG. Highly recommended.

We haven't used the actual issue-tracking functionality so far (but  
are planning to), but Henrik has set things up so that if the  
"component" field of a ticket matches a draft name, the "severity"  
field is shown on the tools page in the "status" field. This gives  
chairs the ability to mark which state a document is in while in the  
WG, which we find highly useful to indicate to the WG what's going on  
with a draft (and to remind us chairs of the state, too.)

For example, http://tools.ietf.org/wg/tsvwg/ shows draft-ietf-tsvwg- 
admitted-realtime-dscp to be in the "Active::Revised ID Needed" state,  
and draft-ietf-tsvwg-port-randomization to be in the "Active::Reviews  
Needed" state.

I see that BEHAVE has started to do similar things, and http://tools.ietf.org/wg/behave/ 
  for example shows draft-bagnulo-behave-nat64 to be in the  
"Active::Candidate WG Document" state.

Useful, no?

Lars

---

From: Alexey Melnikov <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 12:40:22 +0100

Lars Eggert wrote:

> admitted-realtime-dscp to be in the "Active::Revised ID Needed" 
> state,  and draft-ietf-tsvwg-port-randomization to be in the 
> "Active::Reviews  Needed" state.
>
> I see that BEHAVE has started to do similar things, and 
> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/behave/  for example shows 
> draft-bagnulo-behave-nat64 to be in the  "Active::Candidate WG 
> Document" state.
>
> Useful, no?

I've started using it for tracking Sieve WG issues before knowing that I 
needed to ask Henrik to enable it. I really like it, I think it makes 
editor's and shepherd's life much easier.

---

From: "David Harrington" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 09:07:22 -0400

Hi,

I used RT for tracking issues in bridge WG, and had mixed experiences.
I have started using tracking tools for netmod WG, but am curious
about best current practices.
I am curious how others successfully use their tracking systems.

Is it best to keep the tracker for the final issue resolutions and
shepherding process?

I found that tracking WG discussions was less than ideal because the
chair needs to mirror the mailing list discussions, creating two
different places to look for the discussions and trying to establish
consensus. If the editors are given access to the tracking system,
they might use that rather than the mailing list to track ongoing
editing requests; other editors might prefer to use the mailing list.
How do other chairs coordinate between the tracking system and mailing
list discussions?

David Harrington
[email-masked]
[email-masked]
[email-masked]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] 
> [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Lars Eggert
> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 2:05 AM
> To: ext Henrik Levkowetz
> Cc: WG Chairs
> Subject: Re: Issue tracker roll-out
> 

> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/behave/

---

From: Fred Baker <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 06:28:20 -0700

I'm about to try it. What I expect to do is give the document editors  
access, and ask them to use it to track issues related to their  
documents. If someone has "how to do that" summarized well, I'd be  
interested to read it. But one outcome that could happen is this: the  
folks that author documents in v6ops tend to also be the active  
participants. I may see them enter tracking notes on each other's  
documents as well. I'll decide later whether that's a good idea; it  
might get out of control pretty quickly, and it might be a good thing.

Two things that would be nice, and I don't know if they are already  
there or not. It would be nice if when one makes a tracker entry the  
comment recorded is forwarded to the mailing list. It *might* be nice  
to have a way to have emails feed directly into the tracker with  
appropriate tags to get them stored properly. I would have to think  
about how to actually do the latter well, though.

---

From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 15:38:42 +0200

On 2008-07-09 15:28 Fred Baker said the following:
> comment recorded is forwarded to the mailing list.

This is the default setting.  If you find this undesireable, let me
know and I'll turn the default copy to the mailing list off.  That
still lets you explicitly (per issue) indicate that the list should
be copied with entries.

> It *might* be nice  
> about how to actually do the latter well, though.t

Right.  That's not enabled by default.  There's an plugin that will
let you do it, but I rather think that to do this well, you need
something more than what's available by default, even with the
plugin.

	Henrik

---

From: Fred Baker <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 06:54:32 -0700

OK. This is probably intuitively obvious, but having not used it  
before it's not obvious to me. Could you please point us to
(a) the documentation
(b) URL for read-write access for our working groups (is that http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ 
<wg>/trac ?)
(c) URL for read-only access for our working groups (is that http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ 
<wg>/trac ?)

On Jul 9, 2008, at 6:38 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:

>> I'm about to try it. What I expect to do is give the document  
>> editors  access, and ask them to use it to track issues related to  
>> their  documents. If someone has "how to do that" summarized well,  
>> I'd be  interested to read it. But one outcome that could happen is  
>> this: the  folks that author documents in v6ops tend to also be the  
>> active  participants. I may see them enter tracking notes on each  
>> other's  documents as well. I'll decide later whether that's a good  
>> idea; it  might get out of control pretty quickly, and it might be  
>> a good thing.
>> Two things that would be nice, and I don't know if they are  
>> already  there or not. It would be nice if when one makes a tracker  
>> entry the  comment recorded is forwarded to the mailing list.
>
>> It *might* be nice  to have a way to have emails feed directly into  
>> the tracker with  appropriate tags to get them stored properly. I  
>> would have to think  about how to actually do the latter well,  
>> though.t
>

---

From: "Dan Wing" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 08:47:44 -0700

> [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of David Harrington
> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 6:07 AM
> To: 'Lars Eggert'; 'ext Henrik Levkowetz'
> Cc: 'WG Chairs'
> Subject: RE: Issue tracker roll-out
> 
> Hi,
> 

That is all that I use it for.

With one of my documents, it would have been useful to track people's
comments and suggestions against the document as the document was 
wrapping up.  Because in this case, the main author did not always 
remember to incorporate all suggested changes.  The changes finally got 
in, but it took longer than necessary.  The tracker could have improved
this situation by having people open a ticket against the document and 
have the authors close the tickets as they edited the document.  I had
set up a tracker myself on a private system, but there was some concern
raised that it wasn't 'public' enough (I didn't agree with that concern,
but I quit using the private tracker anyway).

[of course, I don't know what is involved to get individual WG
members access to create tickets in the tracker.  Maybe this is
awkward or not possible?]

-d

---

From: Fred Baker <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 08:49:31 -0700

thanks

On Jul 9, 2008, at 8:09 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:

> Hi Fred,
>
> On 2008-07-09 15:54 Fred Baker said the following:
> 	http://tools.ietf.org/wg/<wg>/trac/wiki/TracGuide
>
> Yes, but you need to log in (click on the small 'Login' link above the
> main horizontal menubar).  You log in with the same username (your  
> email
> address) and password as for all other *tools.ietf.org* password  
> protected
> accesses.  If you don't have a login/passwd or need to reset your  
> passwd,
> go to http://tools.ietf.org/newpasswd .
>
> Yes.  There's also a link to the Trac issue tracker and a link to  
> the Trac
> wiki in the horizontal menu on the WG status page http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ 
> <wg>
> once Trac has been installed.
>
>
>
>
>>>> editors  access, and ask them to use it to track issues related  
>>>> to  their  documents. If someone has "how to do that" summarized  
>>>> well,  I'd be  interested to read it. But one outcome that could  
>>>> happen is  this: the  folks that author documents in v6ops tend  
>>>> to also be the  active  participants. I may see them enter  
>>>> tracking notes on each  other's  documents as well. I'll decide  
>>>> later whether that's a good  idea; it  might get out of control  
>>>> pretty quickly, and it might be  a good thing.
>>>> already  there or not. It would be nice if when one makes a  
>>>> tracker  entry the  comment recorded is forwarded to the mailing  
>>>> list.
>>>> It *might* be nice  to have a way to have emails feed directly  
>>>> into  the tracker with  appropriate tags to get them stored  
>>>> properly. I  would have to think  about how to actually do the  
>>>> latter well,  though.t

---

From: "Dan Wing" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 08:50:42 -0700

> > already  

I simply block those notices in Mailman.  The notices come from
[email-masked] which is in my discard_these_nonmembers on
the https://www.ietf.org/mailman/admin/behave/privacy/sender
page (substitute your list name for 'behave' accordingly).

(I find it quite chatty.)

-d

---

From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 18:11:13 +0200

Re-sending this un-encrypted ,;-) ...

Hi Fred,

Yes, but you need to log in (click on the small 'Login' link above the
main horizontal menubar).  You log in with the same username (your email
address) and password as for all other *tools.ietf.org* password protected
accesses.  If you don't have a login/passwd or need to reset your passwd,
go to http://tools.ietf.org/newpasswd .

> (c) URL for read-only access for our working groups (is that http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ 

Yes.  There's also a link to the Trac issue tracker and a link to the Trac
wiki in the horizontal menu on the WG status page http://tools.ietf.org/wg/<wg>
once Trac has been installed.