Subject: Letters of Invitation to IETF 74 now available to past attendees

From: Alexa Morris <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 10:31:20 -0800

If you need a letter of invitation (LOI) in order to obtain a visa to  
come to IETF 74 in San Francisco  -- and if you have attended at least  
one IETF meeting in the past -- you can now request a LOI via this  
webform: https://www.amsl.com/ietf/ietf74-loi.html. The LOI will be  
sent to you via email unless you specifically request a hard copy. You  
can also access the webform from the Meetings page of the IETF website.

As soon as we officially open registration for the meeting, anyone who  
registers for IETF 74 (regardless of whether or not they've attended a  
past meeting) will be able to request and receive a letter of  
invitation to attend.

Regards,
Alexa

-----------
Alexa Morris / Executive Director / IETF
48377 Fremont Blvd., Suite 117, Fremont, CA  94538
Phone: +1.510.492.4089 / Fax: +1.510.492.4001
Email: [email-masked]

Managed by Association Management Solutions (AMS)
Forum Management, Meeting and Event Planning
www.amsl.com <http://www.amsl.com/>

---

From: "Gene Gaines" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 15:42:30 -0500

Alexa,
It is good you set this up.

I would like to see more done to eliminate the problems of visas, all the
uncertainty and apprehension created in many countries over the difficulties
with obtaining visas.  The war stories that have been circulated need to be
put to rest.  I have helped a number of people obtain visas to IETF
meetings, and in many cases the person stated his request to the consulate
incorrectly, or the consulate person took the wrong action.

This issue is so important that ISOC should lend a hand here.  There needs
to be a formal instruction and support system set up to that persons
planning to attend any IETF meeting have in hand basic step-by-step
instructions, the government issuing visas is contacted and their
application process is documented, then each person should know that
ISOC-IETF will be monitoring the process and will step in if assistance is
needed.

I do not see this as time-consuming or expensive.

I am confident we can get a few U.S. senators and the State Department to
support what we are doing, and add a bit of quiet muscle if needed.

Also important is certainty.  If a engineer wants to attend an IETF, but is
not comfortable with the process, or is concerned that his visa may not be
issued in time, and after his company has agreed to spend the money, he is
likely not to attempt to go.  If they want to attend and IETF, we need to
give them reasonable certainty that they will (or will not) be able to make
the trip.

I'd be happy to help here.

Gene Gaines
Sterling, Virginia USA

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 1:31 PM, Alexa Morris <[email-masked]> wrote:

> If you need a letter of invitation (LOI) in order to obtain a visa to come
> to IETF 74 in San Francisco  -- and if you have attended at least one IETF
> meeting in the past -- you can now request a LOI via this webform:
> https://www.amsl.com/ietf/ietf74-loi.html. The LOI will be sent to you via
> email unless you specifically request a hard copy. You can also access the
> webform from the Meetings page of the IETF website.
>
> registers for IETF 74 (regardless of whether or not they've attended a past
> meeting) will be able to request and receive a letter of invitation to
> attend.
>
> Regards,
> Alexa
>
> -----------
> _______________________________________________
> Ietf mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
>

---

From: Eric Burger <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:23:42 -0500

I would offer that if someone actually attended, as opposed to just  
registered, then yes, they automatically get a LOI.  However, I would  
like to relate an incident when LEMONADE ran an interim in Beijing  
(note: NOT the U.S. for those geographically challenged). We received  
a request for a visa request from two "journalists" from Nigeria (why  
do so many Internet-related frauds seem to involve Nigeria) who wanted  
to "cover" the interim. We worked with the hosts and tried to verify  
the veracity of their claim. Not surprisingly, we never got responses  
from the "journalists." We never issued a LOI.

It would be very disappointing for the IETF to irritate a government,  
any government, by being a conduit for bogus visa applications. We  
need to keep our credibility by doing at least a minimal check that  
the applicant is a real IETF participant and not just someone fishing  
for a visa. Yes, for the case of the U.S., the State Department is  
supposed to do a background investigation in-country. However, the  
various regions DO talk to each other.  If they see a spike in bogus  
visa applicants with IETF papers, things will become very hard for  
legitimate IETF participants when they try to get a visa.

To reiterate: this is neither an anti-U.S. government issue nor an  
anti-non-U.S. participant issue. THE INCIDENTS I AM PERSONALLY  
INVOLVED WITH WERE FOR PEOPLE TRYING TO GET INTO THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC  
OF CHINA, NOT THE U.S. When I mention "a government" in the above  
paragraph, insert *ANY* government, not just the U.S. This is a  
global, not U.S.-only, issue.

On Dec 9, 2008, at 3:42 PM, Gene Gaines wrote:

> I would like to see more done to eliminate the problems of visas,  
> all the uncertainty and apprehension created in many countries over  
> the difficulties with obtaining visas.  The war stories that have  
> been circulated need to be put to rest.  I have helped a number of  
> people obtain visas to IETF meetings, and in many cases the person  
> stated his request to the consulate incorrectly, or the consulate  
> person took the wrong action.
>
> This issue is so important that ISOC should lend a hand here.  There  
> needs to be a formal instruction and support system set up to that  
> persons planning to attend any IETF meeting have in hand basic step- 
> by-step instructions, the government issuing visas is contacted and  
> their application process is documented, then each person should  
> know that ISOC-IETF will be monitoring the process and will step in  
> if assistance is needed.
>
> I am confident we can get a few U.S. senators and the State  
> Department to support what we are doing, and add a bit of quiet  
> muscle if needed.
>
> Also important is certainty.  If a engineer wants to attend an IETF,  
> but is not comfortable with the process, or is concerned that his  
> visa may not be issued in time, and after his company has agreed to  
> spend the money, he is likely not to attempt to go.  If they want to  
> attend and IETF, we need to give them reasonable certainty that they  
> will (or will not) be able to make the trip.
>
> If you need a letter of invitation (LOI) in order to obtain a visa  
> to come to IETF 74 in San Francisco  -- and if you have attended at  
> least one IETF meeting in the past -- you can now request a LOI via  
> this webform: https://www.amsl.com/ietf/ietf74-loi.html. The LOI  
> will be sent to you via email unless you specifically request a hard  
> copy. You can also access the webform from the Meetings page of the  
> IETF website.
>
> As soon as we officially open registration for the meeting, anyone  
> who registers for IETF 74 (regardless of whether or not they've  
> attended a past meeting) will be able to request and receive a  
> letter of invitation to attend.
>
> Regards,
> Alexa
>
> -----------

---

From: Marshall Eubanks <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 21:36:34 -0500

Dear Eric;

On Dec 10, 2008, at 8:23 PM, Eric Burger wrote:

> registered, then yes, they automatically get a LOI.  However, I  
> would like to relate an incident when LEMONADE ran an interim in  
> Beijing (note: NOT the U.S. for those geographically challenged). We  
> received a request for a visa request from two "journalists" from  
> Nigeria (why do so many Internet-related frauds seem to involve  
> Nigeria) who wanted to "cover" the interim. We worked with the hosts  
> and tried to verify the veracity of their claim. Not surprisingly,  
> we never got responses from the "journalists." We never issued a LOI.
>

The IETF has encountered this issue starting with IETF 71, when I  
noticed an usually large
number of Nigerian no-shows in the registration paperwork send to the  
Trust.

Starting with IETF 72 there have been procedures in place to help  
prevent bogus LOI from being sent.

Regards
Marshall

> It would be very disappointing for the IETF to irritate a  
> government, any government, by being a conduit for bogus visa  
> applications. We need to keep our credibility by doing at least a  
> minimal check that the applicant is a real IETF participant and not  
> just someone fishing for a visa. Yes, for the case of the U.S., the  
> State Department is supposed to do a background investigation in- 
> country. However, the various regions DO talk to each other.  If  
> they see a spike in bogus visa applicants with IETF papers, things  
> will become very hard for legitimate IETF participants when they try  
> to get a visa.
>
> INVOLVED WITH WERE FOR PEOPLE TRYING TO GET INTO THE PEOPLE'S  
> REPUBLIC OF CHINA, NOT THE U.S. When I mention "a government" in the  
> above paragraph, insert *ANY* government, not just the U.S. This is  
> a global, not U.S.-only, issue.
>
>> This issue is so important that ISOC should lend a hand here.   
>> There needs to be a formal instruction and support system set up to  
>> that persons planning to attend any IETF meeting have in hand basic  
>> step-by-step instructions, the government issuing visas is  
>> contacted and their application process is documented, then each  
>> person should know that ISOC-IETF will be monitoring the process  
>> and will step in if assistance is needed.
>>
>> Also important is certainty.  If a engineer wants to attend an  
>> IETF, but is not comfortable with the process, or is concerned that  
>> his visa may not be issued in time, and after his company has  
>> agreed to spend the money, he is likely not to attempt to go.  If  
>> they want to attend and IETF, we need to give them reasonable  
>> certainty that they will (or will not) be able to make the trip.
>>
>> will be sent to you via email unless you specifically request a  
>> hard copy. You can also access the webform from the Meetings page  
>> of the IETF website.
>>