Subject: Cookie bribe experiment for minutes takers (IETF-90)

From: Jeffrey Haas <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 11:01:10 -0400

Since Toronto was driving distance for me, I took advantage of the
additional cargo space to bring along the RFC 1925 poster and a few batches
of freshly baked chocolate chip cookies to act as incentives for minutes
takers.

For both of my working groups, the jabber scribes appeared to be partially
swayed by cookies.  Neither minutes taker was interested.  One commented on
having a healthier option may have been a slightly better motivator.

Should I find the opportunity to gather further data points, the results may
be summarized in a future April 1 RFC. 

-- Jeff

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From: Paul Kyzivat <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 11:27:55 -0400

I have considered giving out gold stars, that could be stuck on badges.
But I haven't been organized enough to actually bring some and try it.

	Thanks,
	Paul

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From: Alia Atlas <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 11:29:23 -0400

I did give cookies to the two partially conscripted scribes in pim.  It
seemed to cheer them up and amuse them.

Alia

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From: Mary Barnes <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 10:30:17 -0500

I found that t-shirts can be a motivator.

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From: Brian Rosen <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 11:30:22 -0400

I’ll tell you what works for me (as a note taker) — guilt.

I always accept or volunteer to take notes at at least 2 sessions, because as a work group chair, I’m always looking for volunteers, and having trouble doing getting them.

Not that we chairs need more work, but if each of us did notes for two sessions, it would help quite a bit.

Also gives you insight on what it takes to create good notes.  Also forces you to pay attention :)

Brian

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From: Jeffrey Haas <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 11:36:49 -0400

On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 11:30:22AM -0400, Brian Rosen wrote:
> I?ll tell you what works for me (as a note taker) ? guilt.
> 
> I always accept or volunteer to take notes at at least 2 sessions, because as a work group chair, I?m always looking for volunteers, and having trouble doing getting them.
> 

I had to load shed this IETF so I didn't take notes, but I've frequently
done so.  While chairs tend to take good minutes, part of the problem is we
need to encourage broader participation.  Mostly because loading the chairs
up even further Does Not Scale.

It's great when it works.

-- Jeff

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From: Jeffrey Haas <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 11:39:04 -0400

> I found that t-shirts can be a motivator.

A fine idea, but a different scale issue when the scribes are not identified
prior to the meting.  Notably, a shirt sized for Linda Dunbar doesn't scale
to Wes George. :-)

-- Jeff

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From: Suzanne Woolf <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 11:38:15 -0400

> Also gives you insight on what it takes to create good notes.  Also forces you to pay attention :)

Amen to this, it’s worked for me (both directions). I try to volunteer for sessions I should be following anyway, because it means I’ll pay more attention even if I’m fried— and since I’m usually following a session/WG because their work is related to mine, the prospects that the favor will be remembered get pretty high :)

Re: bribes, in meetings I’ve been in with live transcription, there’s sometimes an issue for the scribes with people who speak very quickly even if they’re clear. One team of scribes I’ve worked with always bring good-quality chocolate when they’re on-site at these meetings, for regular speakers (such as session chairs or presenters) who have to be reminded to speak slower. 

I think this points to both the efficacy of chocolate in these situations, and the usefulness of reminding people who have to talk a lot in these meetings that they might wish to talk slower— for the benefit of remote attendees, English-as-nth-language speakers, etc.

Suzanne

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From: Jeffrey Haas <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 11:41:33 -0400

> But I haven't been organized enough to actually bring some and try it.

Longer term, I think having some sort of lanyard decoration or even shirt
pins might be a good way to go.  Finding out general attention to customized
badges was part of the point of my earlier badge experiment.  (That badge
experiemnt apparently caused a bit of rucous in an IESG call after that
meeting.)

-- Jeff

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From: Mary Barnes <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 10:42:39 -0500

I agree that it is a good thing to reciprocate when someone has taken notes
for your WG session.

One thing I do and I'm sure we all do is to ask people that we know to take
notes.  I'm thinking it would be quite useful to ask someone you don't
know. Certainly, there's a risk that they may not follow the meeting as
well as someone else. However, I volunteered to take notes at the first SIP
meeting I attended and that was a two day interim meeting and I don't think
that action added any more to the chaos.  I'm always telling newcomers that
it's a great way to contribute, so I think we should be more proactive in
encouraging that.  Also, if you have a second "known" notetaker, the risk
is small. Also, as chairs, we should be ensuring that we are summarizing
conclusions and consensus as we go.  We often don't do that. But, it
certainly helps improve the quality of the notes.

Regards,
Mary.

On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 10:30 AM, Brian Rosen <[email-masked]> wrote:

> I always accept or volunteer to take notes at at least 2 sessions, because
> as a work group chair, I’m always looking for volunteers, and having
> trouble doing getting them.
>

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From: Paul Kyzivat <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 11:48:11 -0400

> Also gives you insight on what it takes to create good notes.  Also forces you to pay attention :)

I generally agree, except about paying attention.

At least the way I work, taking notes reduces my comprehension of what 
is going on and my ability to participate in it. That means I often try 
to take notes in sessions that I am the least involved in. But that 
leads to poorer notes because I don't have sufficient context for the 
discussion and may not know the people.

	Thanks,
	Paul