Subject: Interim collisions

From: Jeffrey Haas <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 11:57:01 -0500

We seem to be having a lot of getting interims kicked off - or perhaps I
have an odd perspective given that i2rs is overlapping not only routing
related stuff, but also ops courtesy of netmod/netconf.

There's a push to "work faster" and have more of these.

We're at a point where we desperately need a place to list the where/when of
the interims, even virtual, to help avoid collisions.

Does such a thing already exist?

-- Jeff

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From: Thomas Watteyne <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 09:03:37 -0800

Jeffrey,
I'm not 100% sure I get your question right, but if you're referring to
Interim Meetings, the official list is at
http://www.ietf.org/meeting/interim/proceedings.html and
http://www.ietf.org/meeting/interim-meetings.html
Thomas

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From: "Adrian Farrel" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 17:08:44 -0000

Yeah, the list of announcements at http://www.ietf.org/meeting/interim.html seems the best "diary" of planned meetings.
 
A
 
From: WGChairs [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Thomas Watteyne
Sent: 25 November 2014 17:04
To: Jeffrey Haas
Cc: [email-masked] Group
Subject: Re: Interim collisions
 
Jeffrey,
I'm not 100% sure I get your question right, but if you're referring to Interim Meetings, the official list is at http://www.ietf.org/meeting/interim/proceedings.html and http://www.ietf.org/meeting/interim-meetings.html
Thomas

-- Jeff

---

From: Jeffrey Haas <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:07:59 -0500

> Yeah, the list of announcements at http://www.ietf.org/meeting/interim.html seems the best "diary" of planned meetings.

Thanks for the pointer.  I seem to have missed this for some reason.

Now I just need to write a script that scrapes this periodically and
generates an .ical for the set.

-- Jeff

---

From: "Adrian Farrel" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 18:12:54 -0000

If you do, please sell it to the secretariat :-)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeffrey Haas [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: 25 November 2014 18:08
> To: Adrian Farrel
> Cc: 'Thomas Watteyne'; 'Jeffrey Haas'; [email-masked]
> > Yeah, the list of announcements at http://www.ietf.org/meeting/interim.html
> seems the best "diary" of planned meetings.
>

---

From: Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:18:15 -0500

Jeffrey Haas <[email-masked]> wrote:
    > We're at a point where we desperately need a place to list the
    > where/when of the interims, even virtual, to help avoid collisions.

I think you desire, not just a list of approved interims, but a list of times
when people are considering interims?

-- 
Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>, Sandelman Software Works
 -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-

---

From: Mary Barnes <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 12:22:06 -0600

I tried to get RAI Wg chairs to put the meetings that were also being
planned on the RAI area wiki but had little success.   So, I would not be
hopeful that we could do this IETF wide.

Mary

---

From: "Adrian Farrel" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 18:30:43 -0000

The dates re called out in the list of announcements today, but you have to open
them to see the times.

They do appear to be ordered, but that might be luck.

Of course, a pointer to the agendas would also be nice.

A

> From: WGChairs [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Michael
> Richardson
> Sent: 25 November 2014 18:18
> To: Jeffrey Haas
> Cc: [email-masked]

---

From: Mary Barnes <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 12:56:16 -0600

Part of the issue I see is that the interims often fall around the same
dates as people want to wait x amount of time after the IETF meeting and
then y amount before the next IETF meeting (e.g., at least 2 weeks before
draft deadline) and arranging the dates often involves doodles and
coordination.  I have found it helpful to have an idea of what dates are
under consideration for other WGs, in particular since in the RAI area,
there is a high level of overlap of participants. So, personally I think
adding links to the wiki for doodles, proposed agendas, etc. could be
helpful.  That, of course, requires a certain level of discipline ;)

Mary.

---

From: Marc Blanchet <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 15:19:11 -0500

> Le 2014-11-25 à 13:22, Mary Barnes <[email-masked]> a écrit :
> 
> I tried to get RAI Wg chairs to put the meetings that were also being planned on the RAI area wiki but had little success.   So, I would not be hopeful that we could do this IETF wide. 

to me, this list should be done automatically by some scripts.

Marc.

> 
> Mary
> 
> On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 12:18 PM, Michael Richardson <[email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
> 
> Jeffrey Haas <[email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
> Michael Richardson <[email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>>, Sandelman Software Works

---

From: Mahesh Jethanandani <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 22:39:30 +0000

Would a calendar utility like Google (and I am certainly not saying it has
to be Google), with support for different timezones,  recurrence, ability
to see conflicts/overlaps and ability to add pointers to agenda, not be an
option?

I would imagine what most chairs want is an ability to check there is no
conflict, or if there is with which WG.

On Tue Nov 25 2014 at 10:08:23 AM Jeffrey Haas <[email-masked]> wrote:

> > Yeah, the list of announcements at http://www.ietf.org/meeting/
> interim.html seems the best "diary" of planned meetings.
>

---

From: Jeffrey Haas <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 19:04:41 -0500

> conflict, or if there is with which WG.

Such a feature would be great.  In the general scheme of how we do work on
the datatracker, it's "submit a diff". 

-- Jeff

---

From: Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 20:08:41 -0500

Marc Blanchet <[email-masked]> wrote:
    >> planned on the RAI area wiki but had little success.  So, I would not
    >> be hopeful that we could do this IETF wide.

    > to me, this list should be done automatically by some scripts.

So some web page that asks some questions about (virtual) interims, insisting
to get a list of possible dates, doodle URLs, etc. and then fills in
something to the wiki and/or datatracker.

The datatracker has the ability to support interim meetings; but my
observation is that I think people more think of this as being the interim
that was had opposite RIPE 2 years ago, when multiple WGs met.  

Interim meetings get all of the stuff regular meetings get: agendas, slots
for receptions, meeting materials, etc..  and I suspect that many (including
the secretariat, which would have push the button to make it happen) regard
most of that as overkill for virtual WG-specific meetings.

Still, I wonder if we shouldn't always make an interim meeting that spans 
the time between IETFs (minus the 2 weeks blackout), and instead of having 
1 hour slots on the agenda view, we'd have half-day or full-day boxes
(blacking out things like I* meetings as conflicts), and then we could do the
agenda/scheduling dance.   

Well, I write half-day/full-day boxes, but really, there is actually only one
or two slots which are time-zone happy for San Jose to Beijing, which is
mostly 7am PST...

-- 
Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>, Sandelman Software Works 
IETF ROLL WG co-chair.    http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/

---

From: Eliot Lear <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 05:35:47 +0100

On 11/25/14, 9:19 PM, Marc Blanchet wrote:
>
>> Le 2014-11-25 à 13:22, Mary Barnes <[email-masked]
>> <mailto:[email-masked]>> a écrit :
>>
>> planned on the RAI area wiki but had little success.   So, I would
>> not be hopeful that we could do this IETF wide. 
>

I just took a look at the announce list.  It is easy to generate an iCal
file for normal interim meetings, simply based on the standard subject
line.  It is less so for virtual interim meetings because the format of
the message body is free form.  I would claim this should not be hard
for the Secretariat to address; one simply adds the GMT time and
duration in the subject.

Eliot
(the guy who used to generate the IETF meeting iCal files)

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From: "Susan Hares" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 00:05:55 -0500

Jeff and Adrian or other WG chairs: 

I typed in the wrong date on the interim manager to set-up the proceedings
for I2RS.  How does one delete an interim proceeding date?  

Sue

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From: Benoit Claise <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 07:37:57 +0100

Hi Sue,

> for I2RS.  How does one delete an interim proceeding date?
Sent an email to the Secretariat

Regards, Benoit

---

From: "Adrian Farrel" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 08:48:45 -0000

Sue,

I think this one is "Dear Secretariat...."

> From: Susan Hares [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: 26 November 2014 05:06
> To: 'Jeffrey Haas'; 'Adrian Farrel'
> Cc: [email-masked]
> Subject: RE: Interim collisions
>