Subject: Re: microphones (was Re: Here we are...)

From: "George, Wes" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 23:31:12 -0500

On 7/24/14, 1:45 PM, "Samuel Weiler" <[email-masked]> wrote:

>More constructively: I like both the idea for red cards and the idea of
>switching to handhelds.  Perhaps those could be "experiments" at IETF91.

Ray- anecdotally, I found the presenters much more consistently easy to
hear and understand with the switch to handheld mics this time. Still a
few times where a speaker had to be prompted to move the mic a bit because
they were over or under amplified, but generally much less "user error"
than we have been encountering with the lavaliers, and shorter transition
time between speakers. Thanks so much for making the switch this time!

Wes George

This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this E-mail and any printout.

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From: "Susan Hares" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 23:32:01 -0500

I agree that the hand-held microphones were a great improvement. 

Sue

-----Original Message-----
From: WGChairs [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of George, Wes
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 11:31 PM
To: [email-masked]; Ray Pelletier
Subject: Re: microphones (was Re: Here we are...)

>switching to handhelds.  Perhaps those could be "experiments" at IETF91.

Ray- anecdotally, I found the presenters much more consistently easy to hear and understand with the switch to handheld mics this time. Still a few times where a speaker had to be prompted to move the mic a bit because they were over or under amplified, but generally much less "user error"
than we have been encountering with the lavaliers, and shorter transition time between speakers. Thanks so much for making the switch this time!

Wes George

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From: "Adrian Farrel" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 04:42:03 -0000

> I agree that the hand-held microphones were a great improvement.

Absolutely. It is a startling and radical improvement both in time of change-over and ease of understanding.
Thank you for doing this.
Stay with it.

Adrian

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From: Adam Roach <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:01:29 -1000

> Thank you for doing this.
+1 -- My eardrums were blown out zero times by someone talking directly 
into a lapel microphone, and I am extremely happy about it.

/a

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From: Mahesh Jethanandani <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:12:10 -1000

As someone who tends to use both his hands to refer to a handheld for notes, I found it a problem to hold the mike in one. But a stand where I could put my handheld would solve that problem. 

Mahesh Jethanandani
[email-masked]

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From: Christopher Morrow <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 01:02:24 -0500

> hear and understand with the switch to handheld mics this time. Still a

While I agree that the change to hand-helds was nice, there are quite
a few folk that still tend to wave the mic around away from their face
while talking... It seems to me that quite a few folk would get some
training benefit from:

  <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSwYOELaq5o#t=363>

note how the vocalist here keeps the mic basically attached to their
lower lip/chin and keeps their face in line with the mic while
speaking...

thanks for moving things in the right direction so far though :)
-chris

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From: Toerless Eckert <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 10:01:27 -0800

So the right distance for these mikes is to stop short of
swallowing ? I was confused about that and worried that i would
pop some folks ears by keeping them not far enough.

Accoustig level control like a yellow/green/red bar at the end of the room
would be nice. But i guess the last bastion where modern bluetooth
gadgets haven't found their wy too is conference center audio equipment.
Oh well, maybe in anoter 10 years.

We should have a standard for BYOM (Bring Your Own Microphone) together
with speaker identification and question line management. You click on your
mike, name shows up in queue display on presentation screen, chair
can move the queue and open your mike. Would also help to overcome
the "my name is mumble mumble" when folks are asking questions on the mike.

Should really stop in believing new technologies could help solve problems
better, i know.

Cheers
    Toerless

-- 
---
Toerless Eckert, [email-masked]

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From: Christopher Morrow <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 14:09:05 -0500

> pop some folks ears by keeping them not far enough.

the point is to:
  1) keep the mic near the part of you that makes noise (vocal noise I mean)
  2) keep your mic in front of that part at all times when you are
making useful noise

The video/example is a good (I think) reference method: "Keep the mic
almost touching your chin'.

Of course, if you don't care if the people in the room can hear what
you can say then... feel free to wave it around in the air like you
just don't care.

-chris

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From: Ted Lemon <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 09:49:26 -1000

> almost touching your chin'.

Actually, if you hold it this close you will get popping, clipping, and the volume will be too high.

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From: Christopher Morrow <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 14:54:24 -0500

> Actually, if you hold it this close you will get popping, clipping, and the volume will be too high.

this doesn't appear to be the case in the rooms I've been in... and
it's better than falling off the front of the chair or heckling the
speaker to SPEAK UP!.

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From: "DRAGE, Keith (Keith)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 19:55:32 +0000

I was always taught somewhere below 6 inches from your mouth was about right.

Also remember that the sensitivity of some microphones varies depending on which direction you speak at it. Generally if you speak into the top of the microphone you get the best use of the microphone. Some microphones have zero sensitivity from the side (i.e. 90 degrees to the top).

Keith

> From: WGChairs [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf 
> Of Ted Lemon
> Sent: 14 November 2014 19:49
> To: Christopher Morrow
> Cc: [email-masked]; Toerless Eckert; Ray Pelletier
> Actually, if you hold it this close you will get popping, 
> clipping, and the volume will be too high.
> 
>

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From: Robert Sparks <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 09:59:09 -1000

Brian has pointed before to a few cloud-based things that allow people 
to use their phones as microphones from where they are sitting, complete 
with queue management. What's there surely has rough spots (remember the 
etherpad in the plenary) but the notion is enticing, and we should keep 
a sharp eye out for something like it that works well. Maybe someone 
here will build something good using rtcweb that can leverage things 
like the credentials we already have in the datatracker, for instance.

RjS

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From: Ted Lemon <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 10:04:42 -1000

> it's better than falling off the front of the chair or heckling the

Of course it depends on the presenter.   But there have been some presenters who have done what you say, and it's been painful to listen to.

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From: Carsten Bormann <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 10:23:33 -1000

>  <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSwYOELaq5o#t=363>

For stage mics, you need to keep the gain down to avoid feedback from speakers that are designed to make loud noises for an entire theater/stadium.  Stage performers have in-ear monitors so they know when they have hit the right distance.

For events like this, the gain is usually moved up a notch because most speakers don’t have in-ear monitors (and are not focusing on making the right noise anyway), or any microphone training at all (and it is simply more comfortable not to have to control the mics that closely).

One problem with this hotel was that the mic gain was very unevenly set — some worked fine when held at sternum level, some did requite outright eating.  I never had an idea whether I was loud enough or not; a well-visible VU-meter at the end of the room would have helped.

Grüße, Carsten

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From: Brian Rosen <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 12:06:09 -1000

I’m staying in touch with these guys:
http://crowdmics.com/ <http://crowdmics.com/>

Not ready for us yet, but they are getting there.

Brian

> On Nov 14, 2014, at 9:59 AM, Robert Sparks <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Brian has pointed before to a few cloud-based things that allow people to use their phones as microphones from where they are sitting, complete with queue management. What's there surely has rough spots (remember the etherpad in the plenary) but the notion is enticing, and we should keep a sharp eye out for something like it that works well. Maybe someone here will build something good using rtcweb that can leverage things like the credentials we already have in the datatracker, for instance.
> 
> RjS
>

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From: Lee Howard <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 10:04:38 -1000

>pop some folks ears by keeping them not far enough.

In the Presentation Skills tutorial I did Sunday, I spent 5-10 minutes on
microphones. If I do it again, I'll spend more time on distance.

If you can't be heard until your "P" sounds are popping, move the
microphone to vertical instead of pointed at your mouth. Once you've found
the distance and angle, hold the mike exactly like that, as if it's welded
to your face. Singers, rappers, comedians--watch anyone who uses a
microphone, and do that.

Added bonus: presenting a draft makes you feel like a rock star.

Is there something we as WG chairs can do to help? For instance, rather
than introducing from the front table, should we do Administrivia stand-up
style, with ten seconds on mike angle and distance?

>would be nice. 

Personally, I'd prefer a good monitor in front, but a level bar would be
cool.

>But i guess the last bastion where modern bluetooth

Sometimes. And sometimes making appropriate use of existing technology is
more efficient than deploying new technology.

Lee

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From: Daryl Malas <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 16:53:36 +0000

+1, we thought there were a great improvement in our working group. Even
one of the speakers highlighted how much they enjoyed the hand-held over
the lapel mics.

Thanks!  ‹Daryl

On 11/13/14, 6:32 PM, "Susan Hares" <[email-masked]> wrote:

>few times where a speaker had to be prompted to move the mic a bit
>because they were over or under amplified, but generally much less "user
>error"
>This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable
>proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to
>copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended solely
>for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you
>are not the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified
>that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in
>relation to the contents of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly
>prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in
>error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the
>original and any copy of this E-mail and any printout.
>

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From: Thomas Watteyne <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 10:23:42 -0800

The handhelds were a real improvement for us as well

Thomas, 6TiSCH