Subject: Which video adapter for IETF 98?

From: Christian Hopps <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 19:35:07 -0500

Can anyone let me know what video adapters are supported/required at
this IETF? DVI, VGA, HDMI?

I just realized I have a new laptop with USB-C and no external adapters
for it. I run my WG on Friday so I have time to acquire one I think.

Thanks!
Chris.

---

From: "Aaron Falk" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 20:59:05 -0500

VGA

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From: Jeff Tantsura <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 21:20:00 -0500

VGA only
 
Cheers,
Jeff

On 3/29/17, 19:35, "WGChairs on behalf of Christian Hopps" <[email-masked] on behalf of [email-masked]> wrote:

    
    Thanks!
    Chris.

---

From: "Eggert, Lars" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 13:32:49 +0000

> VGA

Like it's 1999 :-)

Lars

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From: "Aaron Falk" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 08:34:55 -0500

> On 2017-3-29, at 20:59, Aaron Falk <[email-masked]> wrote:

In 1999 we had DVI

---

From: Justin Richer <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 08:45:08 -0500

And nobody used it then, either.

> On Mar 30, 2017, at 8:34 AM, Aaron Falk <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> 
>

---

From: joel jaeggli <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 09:15:17 -0500

> On 2017-3-29, at 20:59, Aaron Falk <[email-masked]> wrote:

Replacing a wire with a non-wire is really the way to go.

---

From: Julien Meuric <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 16:20:08 +0200

Indeed, laptop vendors had to disable v4 connector to make us, users,
massively move to v6...

My co-chair faced that issue, a colleague of mine as well. This looks
like a new requirement on chairs' desk for future meetings. Good luck to
the secretariat. :-)

Julien

---

From: Dave Thaler <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 14:38:57 +0000

> Replacing a wire with a non-wire is really the way to go.

+1

Dave

---

From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 09:44:38 -0500

On Mar 29, 2017 19:35, "Christian Hopps" <[email-masked]> wrote:

I asked the Secretariat about this. Some of the projectors have HDMI
connectors, but not all of them.

Spencer, who has two HDMI-connecting computers and no VGA ...

---

From: Yoav Nir <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 10:18:46 -0500

> On 30 Mar 2017, at 9:15, joel jaeggli <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 

If you find a non-wire that works for all the things WG chairs bring with them.  Everything from a corporate Lenovo running Windows 7, through Macs, iPads and various Linux distributions.

Some might even want to try with phones.

Yoav

---

From: "Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 15:28:14 +0000

NETVC had HDMI as requested from the Secretariat, given the nature of the work (video coding). If you have a need for HDMI, beyond adapter inconvenience, they will certainly accommodate.

For adapter issues, the best solution is to allow chairs to present remotely even locally. We can work with the Meetecho team to make this an option, perhaps even a default for all sessions, since ART already provides all the tech needed for this.

On Mar 30, 2017, at 9:44 AM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:

On Mar 29, 2017 19:35, "Christian Hopps" <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:

I asked the Secretariat about this. Some of the projectors have HDMI connectors, but not all of them.

---

From: joel jaeggli <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 10:32:27 -0500

On 3/30/17 10:18 AM, Yoav Nir wrote:
> If you find a non-wire that works for all the things WG chairs bring
> with them.  Everything from a corporate Lenovo running Windows 7,
> through Macs, iPads and various Linux distributions.

it's a bit of an unreasonable ask given that they don't all support VGA
either to say nothing of HDMI

> Some might even want to try with phones.

Indeed.

in the current web-rtc meetecho "slides" are actually a slow scan video
feed, captured directly in front of the projector. That in inversion
from the normal application of online presentation tools.

---

From: Carsten Bormann <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 10:58:44 -0500

> Like it's 1999 :-)

VGA only died officially on 2013-12-31.

(I’m not a fan of continuing to beat this corpse either.)

One problem of course is that Meetecho would need new hardware for HDMI recording.

Grüße, Carsten

---

From: Tim Chown <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 16:12:13 +0000

Hi,

> On 30 Mar 2017, at 16:58, Carsten Bormann <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 

We hit this issue in dnssd this week.  VGA seemed down, so we used HDMI, which worked.

A couple of minutes later the Meetecho issue was pointed out.  So supporting non-VGA in Meetecho would be useful.
 
Tim

---

From: Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 13:34:52 -0400

> from the normal application of online presentation tools.

We could kill at least two birds with one stone if we could use the meetecho
laptop to project the slides.... from the copy that was uploaded to the site.

(On Tuesday, Pascal had a lot of difficulties matching his laptop display
size to the projector, which has always been more difficult on vga than
hdmi... for reasons that aren't entirely clear to me)

That could even be done from the chair's device through something like VNC.

(Yes, there are some authentication and authorizations issues to deal with)

--
Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>, Sandelman Software Works
 -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-

---

From: "Mehmet Ersue" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 19:39:33 +0200

New notebooks usually don't support VGA.

But they have HDMI and USB connectors.

I think we need a USB-VGA adapter on the chairs table or 

enable using HDMI directly.

Cheers,

Mehmet

From: WGChairs [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Mo Zanaty
(mzanaty)
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 5:28 PM
To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]>
Cc: WG Chairs <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Which video adapter for IETF 98?

NETVC had HDMI as requested from the Secretariat, given the nature of the
work (video coding). If you have a need for HDMI, beyond adapter
inconvenience, they will certainly accommodate.

For adapter issues, the best solution is to allow chairs to present remotely
even locally. We can work with the Meetecho team to make this an option,
perhaps even a default for all sessions, since ART already provides all the
tech needed for this. 

On Mar 30, 2017, at 9:44 AM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF
<[email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]> >
wrote:

On Mar 29, 2017 19:35, "Christian Hopps" <[email-masked]
<mailto:[email-masked]> > wrote:

---

From: Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 13:58:18 -0400

Mo Zanaty (mzanaty) <[email-masked]> wrote:
    > For adapter issues, the best solution is to allow chairs to present
    > remotely even locally. We can work with the Meetecho team to make this
    > an option, perhaps even a default for all sessions, since ART already
    > provides all the tech needed for this.

Oh, that's really better than anything I had thought about.
Let's do this!!

---

From: Jeffrey Haas <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 13:16:06 -0500

> On Mar 30, 2017, at 12:58 PM, Michael Richardson <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> 

Being frustrated many times by remote presentation tech to the point where I wrote a FAQ at work for it, let's please work out the details well before an actual meeting.

-- Jeff

---

From: Adam Roach <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 14:06:17 -0500

> One problem of course is that Meetecho would need new hardware for HDMI recording.

I'm not sure that's true, and would suggest asking them directly: on 
casual observation, they're taking VGA input, putting it into a 
standalone powered box that converts VGA to DVI, and then taking the 
digital output from that into their feed. I suspect that going to a 
digital format would make their life easier, not harder.

/a

---

From: Adam Roach <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 14:09:08 -0500

On 3/30/17 12:39, Mehmet Ersue wrote:
>
> I think we need a USB-VGA adapter on the chairs table
>

Last I checked, these require special drivers at least on OS X (and I 
think many distributions of Linux), which makes their use less than ideal.

/a

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From: "Mehmet Ersue" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 22:26:18 +0200

Then the regular approach nowadays should be HDMI-HDMI connection.

Mehmet

From: Adam Roach [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 9:09 PM
To: Mehmet Ersue <[email-masked]>; 'Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)' <[email-masked]>; 'Spencer Dawkins at IETF' <[email-masked]>
Cc: 'WG Chairs' <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Which video adapter for IETF 98?

Last I checked, these require special drivers at least on OS X (and I think many distributions of Linux), which makes their use less than ideal.

/a

---

From: Warren Kumari <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 16:11:06 -0500

So, we all have our preferred video interface, but:
1: in many cases much of the AV stuff is actually provided by PSAV (or
similar) at hotels. They have the cables that they have, and
2: VGA may be dumb and analog, but this is a feature in many cases --
regenerating an analog signal, and carrying it over long distances is
simpler (VGA to CAT5 dongles which will do >250ft are < $100) than
HDMI and
3: HDMI involves some fairly complex signaling -- I have a DVD player
from one manufacturer which completely refuses to negotiate HDCP with
a specific model of projector (I get some red flashy popup saying
something like "HDCP Unauthorized! Content disabled!"). AV people want
to minimize the issues with negotiations.

At almost all large conference I go to, VGA is the standard interface
provided -- before we go deciding what "should be provided" perhaps we
need to understand why the current situation is as it is.

W

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 3:26 PM, Mehmet Ersue <[email-masked]> wrote:
> To: Mehmet Ersue <[email-masked]>; 'Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)'
> <[email-masked]>; 'Spencer Dawkins at IETF'
> <[email-masked]>
> Last I checked, these require special drivers at least on OS X (and I think
> many distributions of Linux), which makes their use less than ideal.
>
> /a

-- 
I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad
idea in the first place.
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing
regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair
of pants.
   ---maf

---

From: Bron Gondwana <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 01:34:00 -0500

Brand new Ubuntu Xenial install on Lenovo X1 Carbon with the provided
USB-C to VGA adaptor, I pulled it out of its bag, plugged it in, and it
worked with zero additional config.  I was super impressed.

(on the flip side, this laptop natively does HDMI with no adaptor, and
I've used that with the previous revision very happily at other
conferences)

I don't mind VGA, it's a lowest common denominator, but it works fine
for the low bandwidth, low resolution required to present basic slides
on a projector.

Bron.

> Last I checked, these require special drivers at least on OS X (and
> I think many distributions of Linux), which makes their use less
> than ideal.
> /a

--

  Bron Gondwana

  [email-masked]

---

From: Adam Roach <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 09:43:29 -0500

On 3/31/17 01:34, Bron Gondwana wrote:
> USB-C to VGA adaptor, I pulled it out of its bag, plugged it in, and 
> it worked with zero additional config.  I was super impressed.

Sorry for being unclear; I was referring to USB 2.0/3.0 connections, 
which require DisplayLink drivers. I believe USB-C is a different beast 
altogether in this regard.

/a

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From: joel jaeggli <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 10:34:49 -0500

> altogether in this regard.

The usb-c physical interface can  given hardware support, operate in
displayport alternate mode. displayport 1.3 and earlier generally
support operation as displayport, hdmi, or vga interfaces.

it's by no means assured that a usb-c port will support all alternative
operating modes. many do not. while the port will likely be eventually
ubiquitous, there are a limited set of assumptions that are universal