Subject: draft minutes from WG chairs forum lunch

From: Karen O'Donoghue <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 10:50:55 +0000

Folks,

Thanks to Niels, below are draft notes from today’s WG chairs forum lunch. I think it was a good session with quality feedback from you all on both the IPR tooling and the IANA process. Comments and changes welcome. 

Karen

*********
Minutes WG Chairs Forum
IETF100 - November 15 2017 12:15

Chair: Karen O'Donoghue
Notetake: Niels ten Oever

Opening by Karen

Barry Leiba: We should have a jabber room called wgchairs which should
also be open in between meetings.

Karen: Thanks to Jorge Contreas for being the IETF lawyer for 20 years.
He is stepping down at the end of December. 
**applause**

[Presentation Jorge Contreas on BCP79bis / RFC8179]
Slides in the materials. 

Jonathan Lennox: If an illustrative use is included in a patent, does it
also fall under BCP79bis? 

Jorge Contreas: Yes

Ben Campbell: Some standards have optional features, if a referential
feature is normative, but I could implement without that feature. Does
that mean it's not required?

Jorge Contreas: We do require disclose if it is necessary. 

Barry Leiba: Is there a way to update the disclosure page?

Pascal Thubert: If a draft becomes adopted, and the name changes, are
the notifications then automatically inherited? <Tools may not adequately support this

JC: As long as it is linked in the datatracker, it is inherited.

Tal Mizrah: What happens when you start working for another 
organization, how does it work?

JC: You are only responsible to report patent you or your employer control.

Jonathan Lennox: When there is bis version to an RFC, how does that work
with with the declaration. Do the declarations get carried over?

JC: Yes

Ben Campbell: In the datatracker, when you go from an individual draft
to a WG draft it is traceable. but the datatracker doesn't link
disclosures to updates. I an RFC updates a previous RFC, the disclosures
maybe should be linked. Now they're not traceable. That is why they now
should be re-disclosed.

JC: Maybe we should take this up with the tools team.

Barry Leiba: A human looking at the chain, does see the update. The
automatic tooling doesn't.

JC: Maybe we should update that.

Donald Eastlake: Often updates are not done because they're manual.

Karen: Then WG chairs should remind people in the WG to update them.

David Black: Update or obsoletes document can have big changes, which
should be disclosed. (?)

JC: We should probably look into this.

Dave Schinazi: Early in the presentation you mentioned that lurkers are
not in the requirements. Is this written down somewhere?

JC: It is in the policy, that was one of the reason for us to update it.

Karen: Thank you.

[applause]

[Michelle Cotton presentation]

Barry Leiba: protocol parameter are standard in ASCII, if you want them
in UTF8, talk about it with ART. 

MC: We try to not put things in registries without

Ben Kaduk: If I want an allocation, is there an entry point for that?

MC: Submit request to chair, he will relay to us. If you receive
approval from AD, you can email and we create a ticket and check and
follow procedures. Best to include message from AD.

Loa Andersson: How many renewals have you done?

MC: I can send that to the list.

Loa Andersson: It takes some time, could we start early with procedure
or make this more efficient if it is significant?

MC: Good conversation to have with IESG, let me check numbers first.

Jonathan Lennox: What is needed to create an IANA registry?

MC: IRTF docs, independent drafts can.

Barry Leiba: Has been previously discussed in the IESG, but 
We didn't resolve the issue whether it could be done for
3rd party SDOs. Non-IETF stream need their own expert to be assigned.

MC: We're talking about a document that outlines expert selection process.

David Black: A matrix would be helpful in the draft.

Barry Leiba: I want to commit to working on this.

Benoit Claese: Would be great to have rsync to get access to the registry.

Barbara Stark: Some registries have been much more frustrating than
others. Namespace was hard, because process was not properly defined.
Now we have it, it is great because you have great control. The
procedure vary so widely from registry to registry and are buried deep
into documents. Then expert reviews take a long time. It has been quite
frustrating, just some feedback.

MC: Every single registry has the procedures on the page, except when
they're not, and then they probably don't accept new registrations.
Ultimately the more complucated the authors make it, we try to push
back. But sometimes there are reasons for the complicated reasons. We're
expecting improvements over the coming time, also a new beta website.

David Black: Suggestions for the workflow project, a link to a text form
or smth might help people a lot.

[applause]

Karen: We have a wiki, and we accept suggestions for topics for WG Chairs Forum

---

From: "Salz, Rich" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 01:29:51 +0000

➢     Barry Leiba: We should have a jabber room called wgchairs which should
    also be open in between meetings.
    
I have mixed feelings about this.  It could be useful, but it could also all too easily end up being a collection of snark and bad attitudes.

---

From: Tim Wicinski <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 09:39:33 +0800

Only if the jabber channel does not allow ADs so we can employ maximum snark. 

From my high tech gadget

> On Nov 16, 2017, at 09:29, Salz, Rich <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
>

---

From: Eric Rescorla <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 11:48:46 +0800

You mean ietf-chairs-bad-attitude?

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Tim Wicinski <[email-masked]> wrote:

> > I have mixed feelings about this.  It could be useful, but it could also
> all too easily end up being a collection of snark and bad attitudes.
> >
>
>

---

From: Alia Atlas <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 02:11:43 -0500

You think that ADs don't appreciate snark?

---

From: Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 17:22:26 -0500

> You think that ADs don't appreciate snark?

I thought it was required.

    >> I have mixed feelings about this. It could be useful, but it
    >     could also all too easily end up being a collection of snark and
    > bad attitudes.

I think that it's a good idea to have such a jabber channel.
I predict it will be used to ask process questions in between meetings,
or inquire if the datatracker is broken.  I don't see that as a bad thing.

(negligent ROLL secretary)

--
Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>, Sandelman Software Works
 -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-

---

From: Carsten Bormann <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 11:09:03 +0100

On Nov 15, 2017, at 11:50, Karen O'Donoghue <[email-masked]> wrote approximately:
> 
> Benoit Claise: Would be great to have rsync to get access to the registry.

This is what I use:

rsync -avzH rsync.iana.org::assignments std/iana

It is indeed quite useful to have all that, fully updated, on my laptop.
Learned the address a while ago by chance, https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg99758.html

Grüße, Carsten

---

From: Benoit Claise <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 15:25:45 +0100

Carsten,

Thanks.
I use something similar for what I care about:
     rsync -avz --delete rsync.ietf.org::iana/yang-parameters .
And it took me some investigation to get it right.
Having this documented on the IANA web page, mainly for the IANA 
maintained registries, would say everybody's time. Copying Michelle.

Regards, Benoit

> .