Subject: "Please state your names"

From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 11:00:03 +0100

I've seen one request in a Meetecho/jabber chat from a remote attendee who
recognizes familiar voices in Meetecho, but we do have new attendees
(especially new attendees since IETF 107 online), and is having trouble
figuring out who is speaking.

For remote speakers, you can scan to the top of the attendees list and see
who has audio turned on, but we don't get that clue for in-room speakers.

Could we get back in the habit of saying "I'm <insert your name>, and ..."
when we're speaking in hybrid meetings? We were pretty good at that, for
in-person meeting minutes, but I'm not sure we remember that when we're in
the room.

Asking for a friend.

Spencer

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From: Toerless Eckert <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 11:07:47 +0100

Should the in-room chair/delegate not take care of the situation by
managing the queue such that the person on the in-room microphone is
actually on the top of the joined-virtual-queue ?

An of course i still spoke my name into the microphone, but i fear we all
tend to quickly say our names in all our strance accents and the masks turn
it into an even more unintelligble mumble. So i think the textual channel
through the virtual queue we have is still the most reliable option ?!

Cheers
    Toerless

> -- 
> 113attendees mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/113attendees

-- 
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[email-masked]

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From: Carsten Bormann <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 11:15:59 +0100

On 2022-03-21, at 11:00, Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> For remote speakers, you can scan to the top of the attendees list and see who has audio turned on, but we don't get that clue for in-room speakers. 

During testing yesterday, I tried to find out whether there is a speaker indication on the second screen, and was assured there is.
Are you saying there is no such indication?

Grüße, Carsten

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From: Ted Lemon <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 11:16:46 +0100

I think it makes a lot of sense for the chairs to call on participants to
speak if for no other reason than that there seems to have been some
confusion about mic line discipline at least at first in v6ops, and that
caused some delay. Explicitly asking people to talk might speed things up
if nothing else.

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From: Ted Lemon <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 11:17:28 +0100

There is a speaker indication. It's easy to forget to look at it when there
is a line at the mic. :)

On Mon, Mar 21, 2022 at 11:16 AM Carsten Bormann <[email-masked]> wrote:

> > For remote speakers, you can scan to the top of the attendees list and
> see who has audio turned on, but we don't get that clue for in-room
> speakers.
>
> During testing yesterday, I tried to find out whether there is a speaker
> indication on the second screen, and was assured there is.

---

From: John C Klensin <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 06:29:44 -0400

Remotely, the "Speaking: ..." indicator does not work when
someone is speaking in the room.  Looking at the queue gives a
clue, but, e.g., in DISPATCh right now, the speaker (at the Mic)
is not shown in the queue.  The chair announcing who they are
calling on helps, but that clue is as easily lost -- especially
for those trying to follow the audio, the chat, the notes,
email, etc., at the same time -- as the names of speakers who
don't give, or quickly mumble, them.  

This is, in many ways, a really old problem, but it seems to be
worse at this meeting than before.  Not a good trend.
   
    john

--On Monday, March 21, 2022 11:17 +0100 Ted Lemon
<[email-masked]> wrote:

> There is a speaker indication. It's easy to forget to look at
> it when there is a line at the mic. :)
> 
>> see who has audio turned on, but we don't get that clue for
>> in-room speakers.
>> 
>> During testing yesterday, I tried to find out whether there
>> is a speaker indication on the second screen, and was assured
>> there is. Are you saying there is no such indication?
>> 
>> Grüße, Carsten
>> 
>> --

---

From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 11:32:31 +0100

Following up on this - yes, there's a speaker indication, but you have to
look at that (as opposed to looking at something like the attendees list
further down), and if we're still putting Meetecho recordings in YouTube
without the cool integration with chat, etc. of course people who watch on
YouTube won't see that anyway.

Kristy in Dispatch said at the beginning of the session that the chairs
will only be calling on people through the integrated queue (local +
remote), with the lightweight Meetecho client for people in the room.

Best,

Spencer

On Mon, Mar 21, 2022 at 11:18 AM Ted Lemon <[email-masked]> wrote:

> There is a speaker indication. It's easy to forget to look at it when
> there is a line at the mic. :)
>

---

From: Jorge Amodio <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 05:32:22 -0500

I found that you can get a clue who is presenting in person for some drafts
by watching the live notes on a separate screen, but that depends on who is
writing at the time.

-J

---

From: "Olle E. Johansson" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 11:34:08 +0100

> On 21 Mar 2022, at 11:00, Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> I've seen one request in a Meetecho/jabber chat from a remote attendee who recognizes familiar voices in Meetecho, but we do have new attendees (especially new attendees since IETF 107 online), and is having trouble figuring out who is speaking. 
> 
> Could we get back in the habit of saying "I'm <insert your name>, and ..." when we're speaking in hybrid meetings? We were pretty good at that, for in-person meeting minutes, but I'm not sure we remember that when we're in the room. 

https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7649.html#section-6.4 <https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7649.html#section-6.4>

There is an RFC for jabber scribes that talks about this. Still good advice to follow.

/O

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From: Jim Reid <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 10:39:43 +0000

> On 21 Mar 2022, at 10:32, Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Kristy in Dispatch said at the beginning of the session that the chairs will only be calling on people through the integrated queue (local + remote), with the lightweight Meetecho client for people in the room.

Indeed. And she's clearly identifying everyone who's presenting or coming to the mike. If those who chair other WG sessions follow her example, this email thread could stop.

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From: Toerless Eckert <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 11:59:25 +0100

Now you are talking about the case where the speaker on the in-room microphone
can not be shown with Name in the virtual queue in Meetecho. Would be lovely to
have a technical solution for that.

As someone whose brain wasn't trained with english as a kid, i still find a lot of
the microphone announcements of names to be thoroughly incomprehensible, and when
i was taking notes, i was always trying to sit beside the microphone to grab actual
tags to read names.

Cheers
    Toerless

On Mon, Mar 21, 2022 at 11:16:46AM +0100, Ted Lemon wrote:
> > see

-- 
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[email-masked]

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From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 12:04:52 +0100

Top-posting to apologize -

On Mon, Mar 21, 2022 at 11:32 AM Spencer Dawkins at IETF <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> *Kristy *in Dispatch said at the beginning of the session that the chairs

Or, as her parents named her, *KIRSTY*.

Best,

Spencer, who will be smarter on Tuesday

---

From: Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:20:18 -0400

Toerless Eckert <[email-masked]> wrote:
    > As someone whose brain wasn't trained with english as a kid, i still

As a native english speaker, I find the same thing.
Almost everyone says their name way too fast.  And if it's a non-english
name, then it's even worse.

Some ancient Tokyo IETF had NFCs in the badges, but there were widepread
privacy concerns with that.   It needs to be authenticated BTLE beacon with
RCM for the layer 2.

--
Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>, Sandelman Software Works
 -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-

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From: Kirsty Paine <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 12:34:30 +0000

Hi everyone, [chairs + previous posters, cutting out the 'all attendees'
list],

FWIW from my experience chairing dispatch this morning - I find it easiest
to announce the speaker's full name from the MeetEcho mic-line to ensure
it's always said, and to manage the order of speakers. The names are also
in the MeetEcho tool as 'in the queue' if anyone wants to check further.
Full names of those who speak are also recorded in notes, which are
live-updated, so you can always follow that if you don't catch the name.

However, I do think we could have laboured that point more when we started
the dispatch session, perhaps something that chairs later in the week can
do and we can do in future, as a learning point.

And Spencer, thanks for the apology - but no worries, I actually answer to
both Kirsty and Kristy... turns out that Kirsty is not a well-known outside
of the UK (in North America, mainland Europe, Asia,...) and autocorrect is
a fiend even when you get it right.

Kirsty/Kristy

On Mon, Mar 21, 2022 at 11:05 AM Spencer Dawkins at IETF <
[email-masked]> wrote:

>> *Kristy *in Dispatch said at the beginning of the session that the
>> chairs will only be calling on people through the integrated queue (local +